Why j-hope’s “MAMA” Scarred This Grammy Producer For Life | Ken Lewis 13 Years Mixing BTS

Welcome back to K-ALL! In this exclusive interview, host Angel sits down with legendary Grammy-winning producer, mixer, and engineer Ken Lewis. With 116 gold and platinum records, 80 Billboard Hot 100 #1s, and over 50 billion streams, Ken is the sonic mastermind behind some of your absolute favorite tracks.

Ken dives deep into his 12+ year history working with BTS (Bangtan Sonyeondan), from mixing their groundbreaking first studio album Dark & Wild to collaborating on massive solo projects with RM, SUGA/Agust D, and j-hope.

Discover the untold stories behind the music, including RM’s studio visit the day after his historic United Nations speech, the chaotic environment where “Interlude: Shadow” was mixed, and how working with J. Cole on Born Sinner paved the way for BTS’s “Born Singer.”

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Full Transcript:

Angel: Hello everyone and welcome to K-ALL. My name is Angel and today we are here with a Grammy winning producer, mixer, engineer who has mixed over 50 released BTS and solo tracks. With 116 gold and platinum records, 80 Billboard Hot number ones, and 50 billion streams, your favorite song just might have his name written all over it. From Taylor Swift to Bangtan Sonyeondan, his track record speaks for itself. Give it up for the brilliant Ken Lewis. Woo.

Ken: Hey, Angel. Nice to meet you.

Angel: It’s nice to meet you, too. Thank you so much for being here, Ken.

Ken: Thank you for the nice introduction. I appreciate that.

Angel: Of course. It’s truly an honor to speak with you. You’ve been mixing for BTS since their very beginning. How did you first end up connecting and working with the septet?

Ken: They reached out to me. Hitman Bang, I believe was my first contact. It might have been Pdogg, but I feel like it was Hitman. I
think I was mixing stuff for them before Dark & Wild when they were just to make records. And then Pdogg and Hitman and one other producer flew over to mix the entire Dark & Wild album with me. Most of it, not all of it. Eight songs I think I mixed on it. That kind of established my relationship with them. I got along great with Hitman and Pdogg and they like felt like I still talk to Pdogg occasionally and then they just kept sending me, you know, the next album I’d get a few mixes and the next album I’d get a few mixes and before you know it, I got 50 BTS mixes.

Angel: So awesome. Absolutely incredible. So, since we’re kind of talking about their very first studio album, Dark & Wild, which I’m sporting today, of course, got to rep it.

Ken: Love it.

Angel: Thank you. I really want to dig into your memories working on this record because even 12 years later, it’s still an absolute fan favorite and you were on “Intro: What Am I to You,” “Let Me Know,” “Cypher Pt.3 Killer,” “So 4 More/2nd Grade,” “Hip Hop Phile,” my personal favorite. “Look Here,” “Outro: do you think it makes sense?” So, looking back at this crazy track list, which one was a personal favorite to work on?

Ken: Probably the Cypher pt. 3. especially these guys are such hip-hop heads and my relationship with BTS has always primarily been with RM Suga and j-hope. So, if I’m mixing a BTS song for the whole group, it’s usually featuring one of those uh three. All of them are singing on it, but you know, they’re the features on those particular songs that I tend to get tapped for. as well as the solo projects. I’ve mixed on two RM solo projects, two uh Agust D/Suga and two j-hope solo projects. But for the singers, I’ve done some like remixes. Like I mixed a Jin remix off of Echo last year and a bunch of Jungkook remixes like “Seven” and what was that other one?

Angel: “Standing next to you.”

Ken: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, they you know I’m I’m here whenever they need me. So, you know, every now and then I just get like a call or an email like, “Hey, Ken, are you available on to do?” I’m like, “Yes, yes, I am. Send it over.”

Angel: it’s incredible. And you mentioned in an interview with Studio Talks, how initially they were specifically seeking an American style of mixing, but over the years they’ve completely come into their own as artists through the sound that you’ve helped shape on these records. So, from your expert point of view, how would you define the core BTS sound and how have you watched it evolve over time?

Ken: You know, it’s funny because I think they tapped me because I was an American mixer with an American sound, but I had also mixed Rain and a bunch of other very notable K-pop artists. So, I knew both worlds really well and I knew hip-hop really well. I was like Kanye’s figure it out guy for 15 years. I think I had all of the right credibility that they were looking for and all of the right sensibilities.

It’s funny the evolution of, you know, they wanted an American sound early on, but then I really remember, I can’t remember if it was the first or maybe later uh early albums where Hitman would tell me specifically, he’s like, “You can’t DS the vocals so much. You’ve got to let the like the all of those.” He’s like, “Those have to be a lot sharper in Korean than they are in English.” And he’s like, “You’re you’re reducing them like you would for an English vocalist. I need those to bite more.” And that was the only time he ever asked for that. And it went straight back to the American sound.

And to me I don’t even think about, you know, “Oh, am I going to give this an American sound or am I going to do…” I just think about like I listen to the song and the song tells me what to do to the song. I try not to put my stamp on it. I try and figure out what the artist is trying to say and convey and the emotions that they’re trying to communicate, and I bring the most out of that whether I’m the producer or co-writer or mixer or, you know, whatever I am.

Angel: Very interesting to hear about how he kind of pointed out the little nuances with the language and then he didn’t bring it up again later.

Ken: Well, it was, you know, I think he wanted more of a traditional Korean treatment on the vocals and then after I think he heard that and probably heard it on the radio, he was like, “No, no, let’s go back to what you were doing before.” And that was working. Yeah.

So, and but you know, it’s really strange. There was one Korean artist um around 10 years ago, maybe a little bit more, that had me DS their vocals so much that I genuinely thought it just ruined the entire performance. And I told them and I was like, “Look, I’ve been doing vocals a long time. This feels like you’re ruining the vocal.” And they loved it. And I was just like, “The only thing that matters to me is that you love it. This is what it sounds like to me.”

So, you know, everybody has a different opinion in record making land of what their descriptors mean. And you as, you know, a collaborator and a creative just have to kind of listen to those descriptors and try and ask like probing questions about, you know, what they’re really trying to convey and accomplish, and just see if you can get like insights into that artist so you’re not just doing you. You’re just like, “Okay, this is what they’re about. Let me figure that out.”

Angel: Absolutely. Yeah. Thinking back to the albums you worked on even before Dark and Wild, like their EPs, so to speak, such as “O!RUL8,2?” I really enjoyed the way that you mix the vocals on songs like “Coffee” and “If I Ruled the World.” I feel like they’re very different in the way that you set those up. And I’m kind of curious if you have any memories working on those tracks.

Ken: Boy, I have mixed so many songs from so many artists since then. I don’t really recall, but I do know all of those songs were mixed using ProTools as my DAW, but onto an analog SSL. So those are all straight analog mixes. And I feel like the sonics reflect that. There just weren’t that many people at the time, unless you were booking a major, major studio, that were giving you an analog mix, and I had an SSL at home.

So same with Rain. I think I bought my SSL like a year before I mixed “Rainism.” So that was really dumb luck because boy did that just set a path for me.

Angel: Definitely set the stage. “Rainism” is iconic in Korea and definitely shaped a lot when it comes to music. So that’s really cool. But you did recently share how one of your favorite BTS memories was when RM actually came to your home studio the day after he spoke at the United Nations. So I’m kind of curious. Can you walk us through that memory and the significance it has to you?

Ken: Yeah, that’s crazy. So, you know, I knew they were in town and I knew that he was going to come out and work on that specific day, but I didn’t know that they were going to be at the UN. I just don’t follow, you know, I work seven days a week. I just don’t follow [ __ ] and so I woke up the morning that they were at the UN and there were like headlines like “BTS speaks at the UN today.” So I watched it live and RM spoke for the entire group, which—he’s the leader, so that makes sense.

I mean, BTS addressing the entire United Nations General Assembly is mindblowing. And for them to talk about the messages that they did, I thought was super honorable. And then the next day RM is at my house and studio, you know, cutting vocals and mixing the “mono” EP which is—Oh god, I love that EP. So I still listen to “Seoul” all the time.

Angel: I adore it. It’s a beautiful song. And I feel like mono as a whole, that EP kind of echoes a lot of the sentiments that he gave at the UN.

Ken: Yeah. Yeah. I can see that.

Angel: Going back to that time when you worked on Mono, you also shared how two days later you and Pdogg were sitting at the BTS concert in New York. So, I’m kind of curious. What was it like hearing songs that you mixed played live?

Ken: That was a moment for sure. I—that’s the only time I’ve ever seen BTS live. I’m in ear preservation mode in my career and I avoid concerts unless it’s the Eras tour or BTS.

Angel: I respect that.

Ken: That’s pretty much it. And you know, my ears are not ringing yet and most of I don’t know probably any of my peers at my age
that can say that and I want to make sure my ears last forever. But yeah, when so uh it’s the United Nations and RM addresses the General Assembly. Then the next day he’s at my studio cutting vocals and mixing mono. And then two days later, we’re at Newark Arena in like the best seats in the house, Pdogg and me and my wife Lori, with perfect seats. And the most mind blowing thing to me was seeing all of the young American girls, and I mean all of them. There wasn’t a girl who was not doing this, singing both the English and Korean lyrics as the songs were playing. And I’ve just never seen that as an American. I rarely see that with Spanish songs. And to have witnessed that and en masse like that, how much it was just the complete realization of how much Korean culture and K-pop culture had influenced America and how much BTS was an influence. And I’ve also got to say that was the loudest screaming I have ever heard in my entire life by a country mile. It was more like it with my earplugs jammed in. It was more painful during the in-betweens of the songs with the screaming girls than it was during the songs with the full PA. I’ve never seen or heard anything like that. It was really, you know, because like for me, the awards come and I’m like, “Okay, that’s cool. I got to I got to make another record now. I can’t, you know, you never rest on your awards if you’re a smart person in this business.” So, it doesn’t like I don’t even track this stuff. And then it happens and you’re like right in the middle of it and you’re like, “Oh my god, this is happening. Holy [ ].” That was it was that was really [ __ ] cool. Especially with Pdogg who, you know, I kicked the whole thing off with. That was great. I love that dude.

Angel: Yeah, he’s amazing. It’s absolutely incredible. And the fact that you could witness that large scale, basically earthquake of fans kind of experiencing the music together, singing in Korean, singing in English, screaming during the VCRs in between the songs. It really is a one-ofa-kind experience.

Ken: Yeah, the light sticks. I had never seen anything like it. That was that was incredible. It’s amazing, you know, and that whole mentality of just like bringing such an over-the-top performance to their fans uh in so many different ways goes straight back to Dark & Wild. If you look at the packaging on Dark & Wild and how much care went into it and how incredible it is, you kind of get like the vision from the very beginning. Hitman from the very beginning envisioned BTS to be the biggest artist in the world and then he did it. And in 2019 BTS was the number one touring artist in the entire world. I was like god [ ] he called that cold before the first album dropped.

Angel: Absolutely. And it’s powerful. It’s very impressive. But you do feel it in Dark & Wild. You feel their presence on tracks like Hip
Hop Phile and Cypher Part 3 Killer. And I love how you emphasize your role working with the rappers primarily too because you could feel their passion even in those early tracks that hasn’t wavered.

Ken: Especially in those early tracks, man, they were—It’s not like they’re not still hungry. Those guys are such hardworking, focused guys. But, you know, back then it’s like you got you really got [ __ ] to prove, you know, as an artist. Especially like doing American hip-hop in Korea at the time was I mean that’s not the door that that’s not the door that PSY opened. No. I mean, you know, I mean
there is no door to walk through in that and they were like ‘let’s go.’ I was like, “Okay.” Yep.
Angel: They made it happen and you were ready for the ride.

Ken: man. What a journey.

Angel: What a journey indeed. And apart from mono, you’ve mixed several other stellar RM solo tracks including “Change,” “Closer”
and my personal favorite “Yun” feat Erykah Badu. So could you walk us through the creation of the two Indigo tracks particularly because they have very distinct textures on those songs. They’re just beautiful.

Ken: I love those songs. I had forgot about “Change” with Wale. That’s going way back and Wale was big at the time. Indigo. Uh, which one did I mix first? I can’t remember which one I mixed first, but both of them are just such a vibe. Uh, the one with Erykah Badu is that’s the first time I’ve touched her voice and and what an honor for me. Like, I kind of have a sense of what RM wants at this point. That’s probably why he hires me. And I just kind of try and tap into who he is. And, you know, I know he loves hiphop and soul. And there’s a reason that he tapped Erykah Badu for that song. So, it had to feel like vintage soul. So, I think there was a lot of kind of going for that vibe on that record. Uh, and then closer was who were the two features on that?

Angel: Paul Blanco and Mahalia.

Ken: So good. Jeez. Absolutely. So good. And we did an alternate version of “Closer.” It was like some cinematic movie/video for
that. We did a brand new mix of that whole song from scratch just for that video. And it was like much darker and moodier and vibier. It’s hands down the darkest BTS song I’ve ever mixed. Usually they want it big and open and bright up on top. This was like roll off everything above 15K, but it sounded beautiful. So I was like, you know, if that if that had been their new direction, I wouldn’t be mad at it at all.

Angel: Absolutely. Yeah. Indigo has so many beautiful textures. It’s just a brilliant record. And I feel like your deep hip-hop background with them also shines on heavy hitters like “Intro: Persona” and “Outro: Tear.”

Ken: Those are such good songs. Love those songs. Intro Persona. So I have a place down in Ecuador on the coast and I have a studio at my place. Uh, and I go down there and make records and detox and chill and, you know, enjoy life again. And I was down there and, uh, we had there, we didn’t have a fire. There was a fire like three apartments directly below us. We had the top floor where the penthouse. And so the building was uh, couldn’t even get into the building for a week. And I get a call from BTS to mix that song. And I’m like, “Oh, [ __ ] me.” Now, this is actually not intro persona. This is Shadow.

Angel: Oh, Shadow. It’s okay. I still want to hear the story.

Ken: This is “Interlude: Shadow” off of [map of the soul] 7. So, I had a couple of the guys from the complex help me carry everything from my studio 18 floors down by hand across three parking lots to a set of uh suites on the on the ocean. And I set up a little working just control room in the kitchen of this little like ocean beach suite and deadened the walls as much as I possibly could. Worked mostly in headphones but but had two different pairs of speakers along with it and and it was just three days of wrangling that mix into what it was because the mix is radically different than the rough mix. But it was just one of those like I felt like I knew where it was supposed to go and uh and I took it there and then they [ __ ] loved it and we did one little change and then it was done. But that was like the craziest, you know, I didn’t even tell them that, you know, I didn’t tell them anything. I was just like I was just like they need this song mixed. I had no idea that it was going to be a single. It came out like a month later with the video and it did like a 100 million views in like two weeks. When I was working on it, I had, you know, I had no idea that it was going to be a single or or anything, but there’s no parsing of, you know, when they call me, they get 150% every single [ __ ] time. So, I went in on that and boy, the a month later when I was watching it, I was just like, these streaming numbers are ridiculous.

Angel: Yeah, definitely insane. And I feel like the chaos of that music video and the insane like visuals that accompany it almost match the chaos that you endured making the mix.

Ken: Actually, you know, there’s a drawing those parallels to that whole process. There’s a lot to be said for that. Yeah, it really feels like those two went together.

Angel: They really did. Like life imitating art and vice versa.

Ken: But I’ll tell you that the funnest moments of that mix were when I was like nearing the finish line and then I was like just giving
my mix like the, you know, the down the hall listen and the whatever and I could give it the open the sliding glass door and walk out to the ocean terrace listen and just see what it sounded like and your your psyche changes when you’re in a beautiful environment. It’s just, you know, it’s more creative, you know. It’s not like I can’t mix in a, you know, a dungeon, but uh I I like working
in nice places.

Angel: No, it’s very understandable. It changed your atmosphere. I actually just spoke with A.Chic, who is a songwriter on BTS’s latest studio album, and she mentioned how RM actually wanted her to write with him in front of the ocean when they were making “SWIM.” He needed that open air and perspective. So, makes perfect sense.

Ken: Makes total total sense. In fact, uh my studio that I’m sitting in right now is I built this uh about 3 years ago now and it’s the room is about Do you guys do feet or meters there? Uh in Korea.

Angel: Oh, I mean I’m in New York so I don’t know what they do in Korea.

Ken: So, I’m it’s about 20 by 20 with about 10T ceilings, but I have a kind of a soft wrap-around circle in front of me that’s about a 40ft
wrap and I have three projectors floor to ceiling projecting whatever I want. So, like here, maybe

Angel: that’s beautiful. I’d love to see if I could.

Ken: Yeah, it won’t be exact, but So, there’s So, I’m putting myself in Ecuador right now. So there’s my beach. I took this picture and and it just wraps around the entire wall and and just outside of like my peripheral vision and ceiling to almost floor and uh and you know if I want to put myself in a different environment I just click a button and I’m you know at the Louvre or you know in Spain or you know I I take a lot of my travels and like my panoramics wrap perfectly around this. So, I take panoramics on a lot of my travels. And then that’s just like a good way to kind of clear your brain while you’re trying to be creative and, you know, uh just get some nice creative stimulus
like you’re working outside. I feel like it really makes a difference just in your overall psyche and especially if you got to work seven days a week, you need to be inspired by the the your surroundings.

Angel: Exactly. and inspired by the memories of the beautiful places you’ve been to also. Like it’s so important to keep that with you, especially when you have to be locked in working seven days.

Ken: It does. It helps lock It helps lock those memories in. And you know,  I have a [ __ ] terrible memory.

Angel: Me, too.

Ken: Everybody’s like, “You should write a book.” And I’m like, “I wouldn’t remember most of my best stories.” So, I’m not sure that I’m the guy to do that. But yeah,

Angel: that’s okay. Maybe a documentary with some of the stuff you’ve captured through the years.

Ken: I mean, I’ve certainly told enough story on video over the years.

Angel: So, yeah, there’s something to think about.

Ken: Somebody may cobble enough of it together at some point.

Angel: Yeah, some point. But since we did talk about Map of the Soul: 7, I got to bring up “UGH!” because that is an absolute
powerhouse of a song. It’s my favorite BTS song to date. And I’m really curious how you were able to kind of mix such high energy elements into a final track that sounded cohesive instead of chaotic. Like it just is amazing there. You know,

Ken: one of the biggest challenges I can’t remember specifically for “UGH!,” but uh but I’m kind of scarred for life by the uh “MAMA” mix. Oh. I think was on Wings. That was Wings. And the reason I say I’m scarred for life, the Hey “MAMA” mix was 179 tracks and it was five distinct different sections. 179 tracks for K-pop is not astoundingly high. It’s high. It’s a lot, but it’s like for people like us, it’s kind of normal. But the challenge on that was there were five distinctly different sections with completely different music and vocals on each section. And there was no overlap of this vocal didn’t go into that section. It was five different mini songs. And you had to make five different mini songs that wo in and out of each other uh work as one song. So go back and listen to Hey “MAMA” and with that in mind and uh and understand like the chaos of nightmare that it did. But also like for me, I love a super challenge and and I think I’ve built a lot of my BTS career off of that where, you know, at some point as their notoriety grew, they would have me mix like a couple songs on each album, but then they would go to, you know, whoever the heavy hitter flavors of the month were, and they’d mix a bunch of the songs, too. And then inevitably in like the last week of the album, I’d get a call like, “Hey, Ken, can you mix two or three more songs for us uh in the next few days?” days and I’m like send them over and I would mix them and then we’d be done and I’d get like two or three more on the album because I understand the sound and I and you know that always helped a lot just being able to work very fast, understand, you know, what they’re supposed to sound like and the ranges that that covers and just be able to deliver very quickly and consistently and then revise quickly and that’s gotten me a lot of extra mixes.

Angel: It’s amazing. And you also have a very unique perspective on j-hope sound because you worked on Hope World with songs
like “HANGSANG,” which I love, and Jack in the Box with “Arson.” So, what did you notice in the sonic progression between those two eras? And how did your mixing style kind of adapt to this evolution within the four-year window of those albums?

Ken: Man, you know, it’s it’s so hard for me to compare because I don’t really like encapsulate things like that. In retrospect, I probably should I really should like lock in when I’m working on these things, lock in like the moments a little bit more, you know, but it’s crazy. It’s always this industry is very feast and famine and I’ve been in feast for most of my career and it’s just, you know, if I turn down a gig, somebody else is going to get that gig and that person might get the next 10 gigs that were tied to that gig. So, like unless I absolutely have to, I never turn down anything. And once a project is done, I’m just like, “All right, reset. What’s the next thing?” So, you know, I don’t know.

I think with j-hope obviously, all three of them, RM, j-hope, and SUGA are all total hip-hop heads. I think RM leans more towards like hip-hop soul, and j-hope and SUGA are like straight spitters. Like I know SUGA wanted to work with like a bunch of the American heads and and I’m sure has but uh you know they really are fans genuine bonafide deep hip hop fans. For them it just I think is just a natural thing for them to tap into their creative creativity that way and bring it out. I’m just glad I’m a part of it.

Angel: Yeah, absolutely. It’s incredible. And even with like SUGA and AGUST D, I know that D-Day [made him] the first rapper to get over a million copies of an album in a single day.

Ken: Mhm. I mean, insane. What? Yeah. Unbelievable. That is I mean, for like a BTS solo project, that was I don’t even know how these things happen. I’m lucky that like uh I’ve been a part of some just some really big releases like Eminem was the first one to digitally sell a million copies of uh one of the albums I worked on with him and you know it’s just like it’s like that there’s this Muso app that tracks your credits in your streams now that’s the the only way that I knew I had 50 billion streams and it and it only tracks streams from YouTube, Spotify and SoundCloud. So I have 50 billion streams from just those three sources. Not Melon. Can you imagine my [ __ ] Melon streams like and you know and this only goes back to a certain amount of time. So it’s really you know it’s fascinating to me to kind of look back on all of the crazy [ __ ] that I’ve done and go like I’ve done a lot of [ __ ] Wow.

Angel: You’ve done a lot.

Ken: You know it’s it’s nuts. But then the next day I got to wake up and go back to work. You know, it just it never seems to slow down. I would love it if it if I could figure out a way to slow down and still make as much money. Uh, you know, I would do it. But that magic formula doesn’t seem to exist just yet.

Angel: No. No, it does not. But mentioning all the incredible work that you’ve done, you mixed “Born Singer” and you also co-produced
“Born Sinner.” So stuff like that’s insane. Can you share the story behind how that kind of happened?

Ken: Yeah, that was really nuts. And the way that uh J. Cole So Born Sinner is a J. Cole album. I co-produced on nine songs on the Born Sinner album, including the single “Born Sinner” and “Crooked Smile” and also the viral “She Knows” that is over a billion streamer. J. Cole brought me in because of Drake. The main things that I did on uh Born Sinner were I produced all of the live choirs and all of the live string sections. We had 16 strings and I think we had 30 choir. So all of the live strings and choirs on the record that you hear are me or my crew. J. Cole calls calls me up one night and he’s like, “Is this Ken Lewis?” I’m like, “Yep, who’s this?” He’s like, “It’s J. Cole.” “Hey, J. Cole, how are you?” Never talked to him in my life. It’s like Saturday at 6. Wow. He’s like, “Uh, Drake told me I should reach out to you about uh choir stuff. Uh, can I come over and play you my record tonight?” And I was like, “Yes.” So, [ __ ] J. Cole comes over on like a Saturday night by himself, just him and his driver. And his driver waits at the street and he sits and plays me like his entire album in progress, which he was about halfway into it. Most of the songs were like fleshed out skeletons. And he just was asking me, he was like, “Well, what do you think about this?” And what would you do to this song? and he was just kind of probing me for like general where did my sensibilities lie and did they line up with him musically and then I didn’t hear anything for months and then months later I get a call and he’s like I want you to come and do choirs and strings on all of these dot dot dot dot and I was like let’s [ __ ] do so we did that and that was you know the Born Sinner album and that led to the guys calling me to mix Born Singer for uh the anthology.

Angel: Yes, for Proof.

Ken: Proof. Yeah. What an honor. Um, that’s just dumb luck
right there.

Angel: It’s beautiful. Dumb luck.

Ken: Yeah. Yes, it is. I was lucky on Proof. I think I got five mixes on Proof. So, uh, that’s the most I’ve had on a BTS album in a while. Usually, it’s like two or three.

Angel: Very nice. It’s really cool. And to kind of wrap up our BTS deep dive before I have a couple other questions for you unrelated to them, looking back at this massive discoraphy you’ve touched of theirs, what is your ultimate favorite either BTS group song or BTS solo song that you’ve had the chance to work on? Do you have a favorite?

Ken: Probably “Ocean.”

Angel: Oh, the hidden track. Why?

Ken: Well, you’ve heard it.

Angel: I have. It’s beautiful.

Ken: It is. I think it’s super underrated. When people discover it, it’s really a moment. It’s also called “Sea.” You can find it on YouTube if you don’t know what we’re talking about. So, if you go to YouTube and just put in “BTS Ocean” or “BTS Sea,” uh, it will come up. And it’s kind of like this really dark, somber almost ballad, but it’s just so emotionally powerful. Yeah, that’s definitely my favorite.

Angel: It’s a good choice. It’s very deeply resonant. anytime I stumble upon it again, it always just like stops me in my tracks. I just have to listen to it and quiet all the other thoughts in my head.

Ken: Yeah, I probably still listen to that once or twice a year.

Angel: Yeah, it’s beautiful. And since BTS’s designated color is purple, I feel like it’s the perfect transition to talk about “Lavender Haze” by Taylor Swift. So, how did you end up engineering that incredible track? And for our audience, how does your role as a recording audio engineer differ from mixing?

Ken: So engineer is my credit, not exactly my role. I am kind of I was brought into uh both the Lover album and the Midnight’s album by Jack Antonoff. So like there’s a bunch of kind of heavy hitters like Jack or Mark Ronson who know that I am like this all started because I was Kanye’s figure it out guy for 15 years. So from like 2002 to about 2017 when Kanye had a musical idea and nobody in his inner circle knew how to deliver it. They called me and I was the figure it out guy. So when you have figured out so many crazy musical ideas for Kanye on so many big records over the years, other people seek you out. That’s how all of that got started. I ended up knowing Jeff Bhasker uh who kind of got his a big launch in the Kanye camp and then Jeff produced the whole album with uh We Are Young and Some Nights. That’s the album. Jeff produced Some Nights and uh Jack Antonoff was a guitar player for fun. First time I worked with Jack, we started working together on other stuff and he just knows like I’m a fixer. There are things that they know can be done, but almost nobody knows how to do them. I’m that guy. So, it’s a really really weird position to have. But I was that guy for three songs on the Taylor record for Jack and uh and a song on Lover as well. And it’s always different roles. It’s the figure it out [ __ ] It’s the I need this. I either have no time to do this and I know you’re good at it or I need this and I don’t know how to do it and I know you’ll figure it out. So, yeah, I’ve gotten a ton of work uh and built an very interesting reputation and credit list from kind of just being able to go like, “Oh, you know, I don’t know how to do this, but I will in a day.”

Angel: Exactly. And that’s all that matters. That’s the skill set you need that a lot of people lack. So, you’re able to fix it when they need it quick. That’s really cool. And I also saw how you actually didn’t originally know these tracks were for Taylor Swift’s Midnights because you were kind of sworn to secrecy. That’s the case?

Ken: Yeah. I almost never sign NDAs unless I absolutely have to. When Jack asks, it’s a easy yes. So I just had to keep monitoring uh releases produced by Jack Antonoff. So at first I thought like, okay, here comes Florence and the Machine. God, I would [ __ ] love it if I was on Florence’s record. Oh, can’t wait. Uh, nope. Wasn’t Florence. And then it was like Minions and I was like, maybe Tame Impala. I would [ __ ] kill for a Tame Impala credit. Nope. And then it was like, and then I wasn’t even thinking about it. And Taylor dropped. And then I get a text at midnight from uh Laura Sisk, who is Jack’s main engineer and who is actually the main engineer on the whole project. I’m like a small player. And Laura’s like, “It’s out. You’re on it.” Wow. I was like, “Oh, fuck.” And then it was like the top, you know, the top 13 songs on Billboard were Taylor songs. And I had that was the first time in my entire career that I had three songs in the top 10 at one time. And uh and they all happened to be Taylor. So I was like, “Nice.”

Angel: Yeah. And very fitting to learn about it at midnight that you were on Midnight.

Ken: Yeah. Right. [laughs] Exactly.

Angel: That’s really amazing.

Ken: Yeah. That was wild.

Angel: And I also saw in one of your interviews that you actually view Taylor as one of the best songwriters on planet Earth. So I’m kind of curious, how have you came to that conclusion? Because I agree, but I’d like to hear your point of view.

Ken: I think she understands how to connect with people. And that is the number one job of a songwriter. You can write the best song in the entire world, the cleverest, most whatever, but if it doesn’t connect with people, you have nothing. And she has I mean the eras tour proves everything where you see like three or four different eras of people and Taylor’s only in her 30s doing an eras tour. Are you kidding me? Like I started tracking her on her very first single like [Tim Mcgraw] and so I remember hearing her back all the way to there. Uh, and you know, there was a time I got to song write with the producer who produced like most of her first several albums, Nathan Chapman, and he’s a great songwriter. And I could feel his musical presence guiding those records after having worked with him and cuz I Speak Now is like my favorite Taylor album.

Angel: I adore that album.

Ken: Nathan produced Speak Now. So, even though I’d say Midnights is a close second for me, but if I’m just listening for fun, it would be Speak Now then Midnights.

Angel: Yeah, definitely good choices. And “False God” is a beautiful song on Love, too. So, it’s really cool that your backing vocals are on that track.

Ken: Yeah. And when she performed that song on Saturday Night Live, I that was such a moment. I was just like, “This is the coolest thing ever.” Cuz, you know, it’s kind of like the BTS thing. I didn’t know that a song that I was working on was going to be a feature song on that album, you know, and it probably would have been a single had the pandemic not hit. So, such is life. Yeah. Win some, lose some,.

Angel: Exactly. But the SNL performance was amazing. And to close out this wonderful interview, I like to ask my guests what their current dream is because you’ve worked on so many remarkable records for artists like the Beastie Boys, Bruno Mars, Ariana Grande, J. Cole. The list goes on and this dream could be big or small. What is your current dream right now as a musician and in your life?

Ken: I mean the most important project to me right now is Anushka Sen. Uh she is uh an artist from India. She’s 23. She’s a very well-known actress in India and we’re starting her musical journey. She and I are musical partners and we’ve put out two singles so far. third single is ready to go. And I was just up in Canton, Ohio, north of me on Monday, producing the Canton Blue Coats. It’s called Drumcore, but it’s basically a professional marching band. And they’re one of the best in the world. And so we have uh the Canton Blue Coats on Anushka’s uh fourth single, which is going to be mindblowingly cool. That sounds amazing. and I met her through producing a song for the United Nations and I she’s just the most genuine soul and good human being. Like fame doesn’t mean [ __ ] to me anymore. I don’t know that it ever really did, you know, other than well this will be a credit that propels my career. Great. But you know, but like famous people come and go. I’ve met enough of them to know. But Anushka is just seems to be, you know, have spent most of her life in it and still be able to separate herself from it. But her acting ability gives her the ability to emote and channel behind the microphone in ways that it’s nearly impossible to teach great singers that if they can’t do it. And that is just such a gamechanger for her. She’s already got a great voice, but her great voice coupled with the ability to really understand what it means to connect the emotional component of a performance to the listener is everything. And she does it so well. And I’m super excited about her project both short and long term. I don’t know when the Blue Coats uh single is going to come out, probably in two or three months, but go that is a banger. So, I feel like we’re making really incredibly great music and you know, it’s just a matter of time until she’s as known a musical artist as she is as an actress.

Angel: That sounds really exciting. I look forward to hearing those songs. Also, so cool that you produced a piece for the United Nations and that’s kind of how you ended up crossing paths.

Ken: It’s a crazy world and it’s a crazy business. You just never know where your uh connects are going to come from. I did a bunch of mixing on uh this jazz album from Nicole Zuraitis this year and she’s a two-time jazz Grammy winner and four time nominee and this album will probably get nominated and I just happened to meet her at an event just got introduced and we just it’s you know you just know when you click with these people there’s just certain people where the moment that you meet them you’re like, “you’re my person” and then we ended up you know working together ever since and you know you just You never know where this crazy business is going to take you, but uh you know if you if you pay enough attention and try and do good business and you know keep your reputation up, be a person that other people want to work with uh that tends to go a long way. Definitely. The other thing about Anushka Sen for the Korean listeners is she’s fairly well known in Korea um as an actress and she’s shooting a movie called Asia right now which is going to be like a feature film all throughout Asia and she’s uh she’s got a major role in that. Uh she’s already fairly well known in in Korea. As soon as we break her in India, it’s going to be on to Korea and then on to America.

Angel: That’s really exciting. And I love that you had that heart-to-heart connection with her where you could tell she’s genuinely a pure soul and that allows for the music to connect even better when you’re working together.

Ken: That’s the only reason we’re making music. Like I don’t want to work with people I don’t enjoy nowadays. So, you know, I may make a song or two just to test the waters, but I’m not making more than that unless we are the same. If if we don’t click, you know, that ain’t it’s not happening. No. There’s so many people to collaborate with that you can, you know, really click with that just doesn’t make sense to try and force it creatively.

Angel: Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. Well, thank you so much, Ken, for pulling back the curtain on your incredible artistry and what you’ve worked on with BTS, with Taylor. I’m really excited for this music with Anushka. It sounds amazing and I can’t wait for when that actually unfolds. And thank you so much for joining us on the show today.

Ken: Thank you, Angel. It’s been a good interview. I appreciate your time.

Angel: I appreciate you. And to everyone who’s watching, I’m going to be linking all of Ken’s socials in the description as well as his website so you can check out his incredible credits because we didn’t even touch all of the music. It’s insane. There’s so much to go through. That’s why we need the documentary.

Ken: You’ve heard a lot of my work for sure. I don’t care who you are tuning in. You’ve heard a lot of my work.

Angel: You definitely have. But thank you so much for watching and you’ll catch us next time. That’s all for K-ALL.

Ken: Thanks, Angel.

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