Jordan Anthony & Chloé Caroline on Collaboration, Friendship & a Gratitude-driven Love Song // #075

heartdea13r Podcast w/ chr1stoph3r g0nda // Episode 75 // Jordan Anthony & Chloé Caroline

Episode Summary:

Jordan Anthony and Chloé Caroline unpack the story behind their cross-continental collaboration, from a chance meeting at Muse Expo to writing a deeply personal yet universal pop song over Zoom. They explore how friendship fuels creativity, why authenticity matters more than algorithms, and how gratitude, perspective, and resilience shape both their music and their lives. From overcoming bullying and serious health challenges to navigating burnout and the pressures of the modern music industry, the conversation centres on staying grounded, trusting your “why,” and creating from a place of truth.

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Full Episode Transcript:

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (00:00.185)
So, Chloe and I were talking a little bit about like where we’re from and she’s like unfortunately we’re both Canadians so we’re gonna be apologizing this whole time we’ll be like no I’m sorry you go ahead Jordan you’re from the the land down under

Chloé Caroline (00:13.518)
you

Jordan Anthony (00:18.192)
That’s a guy.

Jordan Anthony (00:22.281)
I’m from Amperth, Australia and moved out to the States almost two years ago now to pursue music full-time and haven’t looked back, just been grinding and releasing music and chasing the dream like everyone else. So yeah, it’s been awesome. It’s been fun.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (00:43.385)
I’m happy that you used the word grinding because my birthday was on Wednesday and my girlfriend got me a limited edition version of Nipsey Hussle’s Victory Lap on vinyl. And I’m grinding on my leg as well.

Jordan Anthony (00:58.704)
Let’s go.

Chloé Caroline (01:01.492)
I love it. I love it. Hey Jordan, don’t you have family in Canada too? Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (01:01.785)
Let’s go! Happy belated birthday!

Jordan Anthony (01:08.803)
I do, I do. I actually have my mum’s brother married a Canadian woman. So I got Canadian family, is cool. I love Canada. I love it.

Chloé Caroline (01:16.586)
Yeah, there we go.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:17.69)
That’s all.

You know what is funny is like, just love the world and I just love people. And the older I get, the more I catch myself saying like, why can’t we all just get along? Cause we’re not really that different. Like most people just want to get their work done, come home, feel good about what they’ve done, spend time with their family and loved one, crack a beer or coffee, whatever you’re into and just like chill out.

Chloé Caroline (01:30.167)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (01:44.817)
Totally.

Chloé Caroline (01:45.014)
Yeah? Absolutely.

Jordan Anthony (01:48.28)
I agree.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:48.805)
Why don’t we start with something really difficult? Why is there Vegemite versus Marmite? Like why the difference and who cares?

Chloé Caroline (01:56.846)
Yeah, please share.

Jordan Anthony (01:58.034)
To me, I mean, I don’t even, it’s not even close. Vegemite is the king, totally. Vegemite is the superior spread, I’m telling you. I have no idea actually. I’ve never even tried Marmite. So, I don’t know. I’m not even gonna bother, but yeah, it’s crazy.

Chloé Caroline (02:09.034)
But like, what’s the difference?

Chloé Caroline (02:16.526)
Wow. my god. Hey, you need a sponsorship with them.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (02:22.415)
So.

Jordan Anthony (02:24.643)
Yeah right, I know, seriously. Need that Vegemite sponsor.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (02:28.473)
So.

That would be good. Any type of sponsor is good nowadays. As long as you’re not beholden to the sponsor, you got to remain that autonomy. Tell me a bit about…

Jordan Anthony (02:40.581)
Totally.

Chloé Caroline (02:40.878)
Right.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (02:43.587)
you know, how you individually got into music or artistry, how you ended up in LA. I Chloe, I know you were born there, but like I’m fascinated always about the, meet cute, even if the meet cute’s not like romantic, it’s platonic, it’s friends, it’s family, whatever, like how did you guys end up at that party and say like, you sing and I sing and let’s collab.

Jordan Anthony (02:58.02)
Any pair.

Chloé Caroline (03:09.032)
Yeah, okay, all answers. Okay, yeah, sure. So yeah, so Jordan and I, Jordan was visiting town to play and attend a music conference called Muse Expo. And I also was attending the conference and we just got sat at the same lunch table. And I was there with my dad actually, and he was there with his mom. And we all kind of just sat and like really hit it off. And I’d heard

Jordan Anthony (03:10.385)
Do you want to start it off?

Jordan Anthony (03:24.962)
and

Chloé Caroline (03:38.948)
Jordan perform and I was just like blown away and you know I think we both while we while we’re different artists we both really share like a love for storytelling for you know obviously pop music but also having a little bit of soul in it and so I don’t know I just immediately was like I need to write with this kid and we need to get a song made.

Jordan Anthony (04:02.287)
Yes, and then we we hopped on a Zoom song writing session when I went back to Australia and we wrote this song which is now out existing and yeah we wrote it over Zoom and it was crazy because I personally like don’t like Zoom sessions at all I just find it really difficult to kind of like connect with people and you know energy is a big thing when you’re writing songs and Zoom can make that hard but it was so great and

Chloé Caroline (04:10.156)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (04:30.841)
was really easy and fun and yeah, we had a great time and yeah, it felt super easy to kind of make that song happen, you know, from the start to finish.

Chloé Caroline (04:38.083)
Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (04:41.486)
I think we wrote it in one session. I think we wrote it in one session, honestly. It was very quick. Again, like Jordan, we’ve talked about this a bunch, but like my boyfriend had, I was like leaving the house one day and he had said to me, I just love living in a world where you’re existing. And I thought that was such a beautiful concept. And so I was like, why don’t we write a song kind of about that? And Jordan plays piano. And so like, he just started writing, you know, these chords and I don’t know, it just kinda, it came out.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (04:41.743)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (04:46.042)
Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (05:11.616)
And we knew it was special for sure. We had a feeling.

Jordan Anthony (05:12.049)
Yep. Totally. We did. We was super excited about it. Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (05:18.476)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (05:19.567)
Jordan, you said something interesting there, and this is what I love to do, is like, you know, have a question or sorry, conversation, have questions, but then like try to pick up on all this gets brought up naturally. You said that you didn’t like doing the Zoom stuff, that you couldn’t quite get it creatively, that you prefer the energy. How did you get past that and then form that connection with Chloe on that call? And now you be open to it.

Jordan Anthony (05:26.918)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (05:46.289)
think it was almost something that felt just happened very subconsciously and naturally. It was just like, it was really flowing and our ideas and everything was kind of leading towards the same kind of concept. It’s nice when you’re writing a song with someone and it feels like your ideas are of like complimenting each other instead of clashing and going against each other. And that’s definitely, think,

Chloé Caroline (06:14.498)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (06:15.31)
how this song felt when in its origins. So yeah, was really cool to have that with that session.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (06:23.503)
Mm-hmm.

Chloé Caroline (06:23.754)
Yeah, and to to top off that too, it’s like I over COVID had had quite a few Zoom sessions. Obviously we all did. We got used to it. And so like I feel like I had gotten a pretty good handle and like the best way to possibly do it while keeping the vibe okay. But again, like I think it was really helpful that

Jordan was able to play piano, send me the piano. I would like, I remember like voice memo stuff. He would, you know, I’d send it to him so he could listen to and then, you know, we just kind of had this great back and forth and obviously it doesn’t happen with everybody. It just doesn’t. But I think because we had had, we were very lucky to meet in person and then also just to like naturally vibe. It works for us. Yeah, and we’ve written more songs since then in person too, so.

Jordan Anthony (06:50.582)
Yeah. So.

Jordan Anthony (07:09.712)
Totally. Yeah, and I think…

Totally. I think having that base level of friendship too really, really helped as well. think, I personally think the best working relationships in the music industry are the result of the best friendships, I think. I think it’s really difficult. I think in any industry, it’s really hard to work with someone that you don’t like, you know? So I think that also helped too.

Chloé Caroline (07:27.383)
Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (07:34.228)
Yeah, 100%.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (07:35.759)
Good, good for you guys. I totally agree. like I work remotely with all of my team. We’re a small team, but everyone’s.

different spot thanks to all the technology we can communicate. I’ve met most of them or at least a large amount of them in person. But I think ultimately it comes back to just conversation communication, which is why I think music is so important because most of it comes with a message, right? Some kind of conversation that happens within people that is then recorded and captured and spread outward. So it sounds like you guys not only had good vibes and good chemistry, but like you’re using

Jordan Anthony (07:59.792)
Totally.

Chloé Caroline (08:00.014)
Mm-hmm.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (08:12.739)
conversation with each other to get to that final creative result.

Jordan Anthony (08:18.402)
Yeah, absolutely.

Chloé Caroline (08:20.002)
Totally. I mean, I just remember also being blown away that like he was literally on the other side of the planet and we were able to create in real time. that was just so mind blowing to me. And then also just given the context of our song, which just kind of like

Jordan Anthony (08:24.218)
happening.

Jordan Anthony (08:33.722)
Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (08:40.716)
the amazement for people coming together and existing in your life. Like it just kind of seemed very full circle, you know.

Jordan Anthony (08:45.84)
in your life.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (08:50.693)
So what were some of the things, like speaking of conversation and doing this session in real time like that, what were some of the things you guys did in order to get on the same page? Like is creatively just normal? You’re gonna have different opinions, different ideas, and you’re like, what if we go in this direction and say, actually, what about this? How did you guys find that that flow, the collaboration worked or didn’t work?

Jordan Anthony (09:09.626)
Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (09:12.012)
Yeah. you wanted…

Jordan Anthony (09:12.556)
I yeah, we can bounce off each other, but I think just trying things, know, like I’m very much, even now when I’m in songwriting rooms, I’m like, someone says something, I’m like, yeah, let’s try. If it doesn’t work, we pivot, we try something else to try and it, but I it’s always, you know, I think just like saying no to things and then not coming up with something to like either counter that or like compliment it is just like not very, you know.

Chloé Caroline (09:33.816)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (09:41.156)
constructive. just think, yeah, just trying things and going from there. I think that’s kind of how this song came about, really.

Chloé Caroline (09:48.906)
Yeah, definitely. I agree. And I think too, like you realize

I don’t know, like I think we both write melody and lyrics, which is cool. You know, some people just kind of focus more on one or the other. But, you know, I feel like, yeah, just both being open minded to each other’s ideas. And then, you know, when I’m like such a lyric crazy person. like when I’m overthinking something, being able to have somebody like Jordan to like play off of and kind of be like, stop overthinking it. You don’t, it doesn’t need to be that complicated or, you know.

Jordan Anthony (10:00.323)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (10:21.378)
Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (10:22.768)
he’s really great with melodies so like hey let’s create you know we have a really deep message here but let’s create a post-chorus that’s super catchy you know and just kind of like figuring out how to create this balance and figure out what’s gonna suit this song the most

Jordan Anthony (10:26.818)
you know, we were really dramatic here, but let’s create a post-point that’s super quickie. You know, and just kind of like figuring out how to create this solid, figure out what’s gonna do.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (10:38.053)
But Jordan, you said something that I think is super key too, as you talk about friendship and like being in good rapport with someone to like create that.

Jordan Anthony (10:46.422)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (10:47.721)
So much of this industry is like ego and pretension and snobbery and we’ve heard even, you know, more horrific stories about it too. How do you guys, especially with all this stuff and the accolades that you’ve had so far, I Jordan, I know that there’s been like the voice in American Idol. How do you stay rooted in, what am I trying to say? How do you stay grounded? How do you avoid the bullshit?

Jordan Anthony (10:49.338)
which being is like ego and pretension and slavery.

Jordan Anthony (11:01.146)
substance.

Jordan Anthony (11:11.877)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (11:12.803)
for it to stay like, you know, human and still collab and still do incredible stuff and still have a certain part of you and ego but not let it get out of hand.

Jordan Anthony (11:23.325)
I’ll be so real, it’s still something I’m figuring out and I think it’s something that it’s a very much a work in progress all the time. But I think for me, having a really tight knit and close circle is so key and so essential to me and you know, really keeping that tight with people that you know you can trust and love and that you know they’re there and have good intentions and sometimes that’s harder, you know.

said then done to be able to figure that out. But yeah, I think that’s one of the biggest things for me that has kept me sane and kept me grounded is having great people around me that I know will encourage me when I deserve it, but also like call me out sometimes and be like, hey, like, what are you doing?

Chloé Caroline (12:11.374)
Yeah, I totally agree. I… Yeah, I’m…

Jordan Anthony (12:12.249)
think that’s super important. What about you, Quince?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (12:12.548)
Thank you.

Chloé Caroline (12:16.494)
100 % on the same page. think, you know, we both come from really strong families. I think we’re really close to their families and our siblings. And I think that has, you know, it plays a huge role. They’re involved. You know, my parents are very involved and supportive. I know his are. And you think that that would always be the case for artists, but it’s not. And it really is for my dad, you know, as a musician, he was in bands.

the world very well, so I think it’s also a little bit easier for him to keep me humble and remind me, you know, like, hey, know, this is not easy. It’s also, you know, I don’t know, like for me, a big thing too is just like being grateful, having that, again, having that gratitude for like…

Jordan Anthony (12:53.877)
really?

Chloé Caroline (13:08.812)
what we get to do. Like, yes, of course, it’s not always easy. It’s not an easy journey being an independent artist, but, or even a major artist, it’s not easy, but we get to create for a living. And like, that’s crazy to me. You know what I mean? Like, I am lucky. Like, we can’t take ourselves too seriously, honestly. get, and I get to sit in a room, laugh, make some jokes, talk about our…

Jordan Anthony (13:20.111)
it creates.

Jordan Anthony (13:23.971)
Yeah,

Chloé Caroline (13:33.4)
things that we’re dealing with and write it down and get to call it a job. So like, when you look at it, you zoom out and you look at it like that, it’s like, all right, I can’t really let my ego get in the way here. And then secondly, like, you know, I’ve been doing this for a while. I’m a little bit older than Jordan. And I remember the people, like when I was a teenager that gave me a shot, you know, the people that like took the time to listen to my music or write with me that were like,

Jordan Anthony (13:43.183)
can’t really let my fucking burger-

Jordan Anthony (13:55.472)
you know

Chloé Caroline (14:03.052)
way far advanced in their career. And so I think I’m like, okay, how can I do, like, I can’t say no to people that are also on the same journey, you know, as far as like writing with people that are maybe younger than me or just starting out or whatever or older than me, you know, like I always wanna like push myself and challenge myself. So that keeps me grounded too, because there’s so many different types of art out there.

Jordan Anthony (14:13.314)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (14:28.557)
Yeah, beautiful, beautiful answers. I appreciate both of being open and honest. Jordan, I love how you said like, I, to be honest, I’m still trying to figure it out. I feel the same way. And you know what is really crappy is that like, even as a 46 year old man with, you know, marriages and kids and all this stuff, like

Jordan Anthony (14:29.657)
Totally.

Jordan Anthony (14:38.808)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (14:47.813)
I’m still figuring it out. You you’re going to be 80, 90 years old and you’ll still be figuring it out. don’t know why people have such a hard time admitting now more than ever like that they messed up or that they’re wrong or I don’t know. It’s okay. So good for you guys being aware of that and doing that.

Jordan Anthony (15:01.391)
Totally.

Jordan Anthony (15:05.103)
Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah, I feel like it’s just a constant work in progress. Like it never ends.

Chloé Caroline (15:12.376)
Totally.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (15:12.729)
Well, that’s like art, right? Like, I mean, speaking of Nipsey Hussle, like the amount of videos and music videos and live videos and interviews and recordings and mixtapes that he did before his first official album drops, his only one, is staggering. And, you know, I was sitting there thinking about it last night, like every single one of these, I would have been feeling like, my God, this is a banger on all this video shot so well. Why isn’t it blowing up? Why isn’t it blowing up? And it doesn’t matter.

Jordan Anthony (15:15.652)
course.

Chloé Caroline (15:30.668)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (15:42.743)
What matters is that you’re enjoying the process, that you’re creating the art that you want, and that ultimately success will just be whatever it is. The more organic you are, the more real you are, the better the chance of success. So why not just be grateful and enjoy the ride?

Jordan Anthony (15:50.031)
Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (15:58.146)
Totally, and I think that’s the thing as well. this industry keeps you humble in itself sometimes because you’re gonna have days where you’re riding this like amazing high and then all of sudden something keeps, you know what I mean? There’s always, I don’t know, something that’s gonna pull you back down and you just have to like remember your why for doing it and what ultimately is serving your purpose and your passion and…

Jordan Anthony (15:58.895)
100%.

Jordan Anthony (16:16.205)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (16:25.743)
Totally.

Chloé Caroline (16:26.228)
Yeah, it’s hard to do. I mean, it is crazy. The same day that you’ll have something great happen, you’ll be reminded that somebody is way more successful or whatever. Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (16:34.991)
Right?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (16:37.221)
Totally, totally agree. this is the only song you guys have done together, which is awesome. I love being able to like speak to multiple artists in one go and get multiple perspectives.

Chloé Caroline (16:47.299)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (16:48.559)
Totally.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (16:49.591)
It’s kind of like pitched as a love song, but after I watched the music video, after I read the lyrics, listened to it a couple of times, I really started to see that this wasn’t like a love song in the romantic sense. This was almost like a love song in the sense of humans or another human in general. And you said the word gratitude, Chloe. Like that’s what this, that’s what I was taking from this was all love.

Chloé Caroline (17:00.952)
Mm-hmm.

Chloé Caroline (17:08.206)
Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (17:13.198)
Yeah, yeah, totally. think like it is all love. Yeah, 100%. I think whether it’s of course like for me the line was yes, originally inspired by my partner for me, but at the same time I feel that way about certain friends, family, co-creators like Jordan, just yeah, that gratitude for getting to be alive at the same time.

Jordan Anthony (17:14.336)
It is.

Jordan Anthony (17:38.531)
No, it’s really nice. It’s very true though. Like you nailed it there. think we wanted this song, like yes, it is like on first glance, it is like a love song, but I think it’s a love song that’s kind of all encompassing. It can be about your lover, your mom, your dad, your dog, like genuinely, whatever you want it to be about. And that’s the beautiful thing about music, whatever you want it to be about, it is, you know, it’s like.

Chloé Caroline (17:59.978)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (18:06.189)
That’s why we write it. write it for people to be able to apply it to their own lives and decide what they want it to be about and who they want it to be about. So I think that’s why I love this song.

Chloé Caroline (18:06.733)
Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (18:15.95)
Totally. And we kind of in… Yeah, yeah, I agree. And I think we, I remember us intentionally kind of keeping that chorus a little bit more universal too, because we wanted somebody to be able to take whatever they wanted from it.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (18:16.121)
Absolutely.

Jordan Anthony (18:27.01)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (18:32.899)
Yeah. It’s funny how important gratitude is because it really changes the narrative of everything. Like there’s a line, I love living in a world where the other exists. And so for me, I can extrapolate that and say, I love living in a world where you two exist because because of that the song happened and then I get to have an amazing conversation with you two about love and gratitude.

Jordan Anthony (18:33.432)
Totally.

Jordan Anthony (18:41.707)
Ahem.

Jordan Anthony (19:00.174)
There we go. There we go. Right? It is. It’s crazy.

Chloé Caroline (19:00.778)
So cool, that’s so cool. I love that. And we’re all in different places right now. Like that is so insane. I think we forget, we become so numb to just like the vast craziness that the fact that we can do this right now from our own homes, wherever we are, you know, just because yeah, we live in 2026 and everything seems just normal, you know, but hey, back in the 1700s, they’d be like, what?

Jordan Anthony (19:18.968)
Crazy.

Jordan Anthony (19:25.102)
Alright.

Jordan Anthony (19:29.4)
Like why you are on a call in three different places and you can see each other? Like… Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (19:33.016)
Right?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (19:35.631)
Hahaha

Chloé Caroline (19:35.854)
So crazy. Oh my god, it keeps you… Sorry. I was gonna say, keeps you in check. Keeps you in check for sure.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (19:38.753)
one of the, sorry, no, no, no, I was just gonna.

Jordan Anthony (19:45.326)
Totally.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (19:47.565)
I was gonna say like, watchin’, we don’t have to beat around the bush. Pop music, unfortunately, for most of it, especially current, is contrived. There’s so much pop music that’s just the machine, spit it out, know, whatever hits, like.

Jordan Anthony (20:02.426)
yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (20:03.353)
out there, there’s not a lot of substance to a lot of pop music. Now that’s not to discredit pop music because I grew up with all music. There are so many quote unquote pop artists that have been absolutely influential and instrumental in life and conversation. Michael Jackson comes to mind, right? Like there’s so many huge artists that have done so much.

Jordan Anthony (20:25.592)
Yup.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (20:27.461)
I mean, he was even fighting the system before he left our beautiful planet. What I got from the music video was that you guys seem so genuine. It doesn’t seem contrived. It seems like, OK, this is a pop song or it’s a pop video. But these are two people who are totally loving what they do, who are in the moment. And is that accurate? What’s the vibe on the set? Tell me a bit about that.

Chloé Caroline (20:50.53)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (20:52.382)
I would like to think that is the case, yes, but Chloe can confirm or deny.

Chloé Caroline (20:56.236)
Yeah, no, it definitely is the case and you know, we were kind of… We pulled this thing together quite at the 11th hour, if I’m being honest, just because of our schedules at the time and the videographers and so, you know, it was literally just like the four of us. I actually had my dad helping out on set and then we had Trey shooting the video. Yeah, and then it was just Jordan and I and…

Jordan Anthony (21:07.426)
We did.

Jordan Anthony (21:20.865)
Legend

Chloé Caroline (21:25.688)
you know, Jordan was gracious enough to let us shoot at his place and yeah, so we kept it really easy and then I think we just wanted it to feel, I remember like very much raw in a way, like I really wanted to have that live performance aspect to it because this is a song that Jordan and I can perform at the drop of a hat somewhere and we hoped to more, that would be great, but to really have that visual and then also

Jordan Anthony (21:52.482)
SILENT

Chloé Caroline (21:55.604)
like, I don’t know, going up on his roof was really fun too, just because you have all of LA and it kind of, again, is on theme with just all these people that are in this world doing their own thing and yet existing together. But it was a lot of fun for sure. It was easy.

Jordan Anthony (22:10.008)
Riot.

Jordan Anthony (22:14.456)
Totally. Yeah it was.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (22:19.557)
Yeah, find it just every day I think about it more and more, especially once you have kids, like I don’t want to sound like an old man, but like once you have kids, things really change your perspective changes. And you think about like how, are the odds that like these two people would create this person and that the molecules and the atoms, whatever would come together and form like this version of a person that’s walking, talking with this personality. And then you go like multiple levels further, like how they’re raised.

Jordan Anthony (22:30.51)
Of course.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (22:49.611)
how they grow up, how they meet, how they create this song together. That for me is part of the beauty and part of the gratitude is like, what are the odds of you two being born and then living your lives and then those lives crossing and then this art coming out of it? That’s crazy.

Jordan Anthony (23:05.838)
It’s wild. It’s so wild.

Chloé Caroline (23:05.934)
Good.

It’s it’s so crazy and it reminds you to especially with art You just you don’t know who’s gonna connect to it you don’t know where it’s gonna lead. I mean seriously like 10 years from now somebody could listen to this and and and it encourages them to go and don’t know say hi to the person sitting next to them and they fall in love or it could be used in a movie like we don’t we don’t know but it wouldn’t happen if we didn’t decide to put it out there and just hope for the

Jordan Anthony (23:29.303)
Totally.

Chloé Caroline (23:36.464)
You know, truly.

Jordan Anthony (23:38.252)
I love that. So true. Yeah. You just, you just never know. And I think, in, being an artist in the modern day, it’s all very digital and numbers and social media and followers and virality. And I think because of that, we underestimate the impact that our music can have on people. And we don’t truly see the full fruits of that until like,

I’m performing at a show and someone comes up to me and is like, this song saves my life. And I’m like, wow, like that’s why I do what I do. That’s why we write songs. So yeah, like Chloe said, just getting it out there and sharing it, you really, you don’t know what impact that you may have on someone, you know?

Chloé Caroline (24:10.103)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (24:20.804)
Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (24:20.93)
Yeah, yeah, and I think for us both, of course, like we want our music to reach as many people as possible because I believe that it will have impact. But at the same time, what really matters at the end of the day is that one person, like does one person really like feel something from it and to get a chance to like speak to that person like will always be more impactful than, you know, a bunch of random faces that you, you know, you don’t know their story.

Jordan Anthony (24:41.485)
Alright.

Chloé Caroline (24:51.004)
They don’t you know how they really feel like getting to have that one-on-one connection is is everything And what drives me to keep going like if I have one person that’s willing to take time out of their day to listen like that is That’s it that that’s enough as much as it would be great for this song to get millions and millions of streams

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (24:57.155)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (25:11.109)
I think that’s a good point because I think we’ve, you know, most of us have been conditioned to live in the modern world and fall victim to like chasing success and living in the future.

Jordan Anthony (25:11.309)
Totally.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (25:23.513)
But like when you’re truly passionate about something, let’s say you’re an artist, you don’t care about anything other than just waking up and doing the thing you love, right? Like for you guys, it’s probably like, my God, I got this amazing idea. I’m writing it down. I got a lyric. got a melody, whatever I need to get in the studio. I need to create this. Who cares what that product does? I just need to do this. And if it resonates with an audience, that’s great.

Jordan Anthony (25:43.757)
You’re right.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (25:46.989)
what was, you know, for each of you, maybe start with Jordan, like what was your entry point? When did you realize that your purpose or your must have, must do, must be was music?

Jordan Anthony (25:59.902)
And I think music’s really been all I’ve ever known. I remember my first memory of writing my first song was when I used to get bullied at school quite a bit. And I wrote my first song at seven when I came home from school and I had the worst day ever. I came home and I wrote my first song about getting bullied and how I was feeling. And I was never someone that really liked to talk about.

what I was going through with people. And so I think for me, songwriting became the first thing where I could express truly how I was feeling and kind of, you know, self-heal almost without having to talk about it. And that’s kind of, you know, why I love songwriting so much, because it allows me as an artist and also other people to kind of resonate with how I’m feeling and it may help them, but it also, at the end of the day, it’s something that we do.

to help ourselves heal sometimes, you know, which is why I love it.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (27:02.085)
That’s so special. like, it’s funny that so many of us have this like specific visual of like who gets bullied and you don’t think it’s gonna be the guy who ends up being big, attractive, successful, whatever, but like it falls, it befalls all of us. And then what’s even funnier is that not only did that happen to you, but like…

Chloé Caroline (27:03.586)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (27:04.673)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (27:28.025)
Your music for you, it sounded like it was therapy before it was art.

Jordan Anthony (27:33.471)
It absolutely was. It was totally therapy for me. It was the only type of therapy I knew for a while. So yeah, that’s kind of how I got through a lot in my life. And still to this day, it’s the one thing that’s there for me no matter what.

Chloé Caroline (27:39.918)
Yep.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (27:48.207)
That’s awesome. That’s how I feel about talking with people. mean, this podcast is like healing and learning and growing. And hopefully other people will be able to do the same thing. What about you, Chloe?

Jordan Anthony (27:51.543)
Totally, it’s amazing.

I’m sorry.

Jordan Anthony (27:59.618)
Totally.

Chloé Caroline (28:01.038)
Yeah, I mean, very, very similar. I wrote my first song at like six years old. you know, yeah, was always music and singing was always my

the way for me to calm down, to express. I would sing myself to sleep at night just to, know, because I’ve always kind of struggled with sleeping, being a little bit ADD. So it started very young. And then when I was 11, I got really sick and I got pulled out of seventh or sixth grade and had to finish the year on independent study and then out of the hospital and almost died. so for me,

Yeah, music in that isolation became how I coped with that and how I connected to other people because even when I started going back to school in seventh grade, similar to Jordan, I also dealt with…

some bullying and mean girls and for the first time in my life. And I just felt, yeah, very disconnected, very alone at a very pivotal stage in my life, being kind of on that precipice between childhood and becoming a teenager. And yeah, it was was very scary. But for me, yeah, music became just how I was able to process what I was going through and then ultimately felt very called to share it.

So I got a Facebook page in seventh grade and started just putting videos of me singing and sharing my songs up there. And again, just because I felt like it was a safe space to do that, even though I wouldn’t necessarily have been the kid that like whipped out my guitar, you know, in front of people and played my songs. And then I went to school and people were telling me that they related to them. And that was just like…

Chloé Caroline (29:56.11)
the coolest thing, because again, I wasn’t expecting that. And I was like, I have to do this.

Jordan Anthony (30:03.245)
So cool.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (30:03.353)
That’s amazing. I appreciate you sharing. You can’t get on, you know, the heart dealer podcast and drop something like I was sick and almost died and then not expect me to start to pull at that string. So what happened?

Chloé Caroline (30:14.19)
Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, so I had just started getting stomach aches at first and kept going to the nurse’s office. This was very early on in my sixth grade year. yeah, and then they couldn’t really figure out what was going on. And eventually we found I had a virus that was…

kind of, I guess, like, I don’t know to describe it, embedded into my gut and my whole body and…

That was an issue. I had to go to like a very special doctor to treat that. On top of that, I had gotten somehow parasites from, we don’t know if it was from a surfing trip that I had gone on or when I was in London. And then another like stomach hernia that was, they were all kind of encompassed together, but long story short, I couldn’t, I really couldn’t eat. So I lost like 30 pounds in a month on an 11 year old. That’s like crazy.

Jordan Anthony (31:04.93)
Wow.

Jordan Anthony (31:18.061)
That’s insane.

Chloé Caroline (31:19.108)
And yeah, and so because they couldn’t figure out what was going on, lot of the parents of the friends that I was hanging out with thought I had an eating disorder.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (31:29.89)
Mmm.

Chloé Caroline (31:30.122)
And so even though, you know, like it just caused like I couldn’t hang out with some of my friends anymore. Obviously I was still sick, but it was just like a very, very isolating time, very scary time for my parents, my little sister who was only nine at the time. And yeah, it was crazy. And then I had transferred to different school because I looked very different. And it was a Catholic school. And I’m Christian and I’m very spiritual, but I’m not Catholic.

And so it was definitely also treated kind of like an outsider there with kids who had known each other since they were You know five years old and I was coming from public school and you know, it was just such a different experience and I Remember there was a girl that had gotten bullied By this the only girls that I knew actually were like a couple popular girls They were my friends, but I stuck up for this one girl who’s getting bullied and then after that it was just kind of like outcasted

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (32:10.298)
Sure.

Chloé Caroline (32:29.966)
a bit but that’s okay because I wrote a bunch of songs for a bit.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (32:33.369)
Yeah. Do you feel like it happened at an age in your life where it was easier to get through because you were maybe a little younger and less aware of the severity of it or was it equally difficult even though you were younger?

Chloé Caroline (32:49.838)
I would say that it was probably equally difficult because…

I mean, I don’t even know if age would have really necessarily mattered just because for the longest time, no one knew what was really going on. So I think that was the scariest part for a while was like, you know, no one really believing me, you know, kind of questioning me. I remember like I when I was in the hospital having to have nurses watch me go to the bathroom because they were afraid I was going to like throw up or something like, and I was like, I don’t you know, I’m not I don’t have an eating disorder, you know, like it’s

Jordan Anthony (33:10.179)
You

Chloé Caroline (33:26.096)
So like having to try to explain yourself like that.

I think it doesn’t matter what age you are. Nobody wants to feel that way, you know? So yeah, it was definitely interesting. But I think, again, like I am grateful. Like I don’t know if I would be who I am without that. And it led me to, I went back to my public school for eighth grade and I ended up joining the cheer team. And then I got used to performing in front of people. And then in high school, I was a cheerleader and joined

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (33:34.402)
Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (34:00.976)
and you know really I felt like had a new confidence in a way it was weird and a maturity I I’m grateful because I really remember

The only thing that I wanted was to be with my family and like to get to like eat food that I loved and to be with my friends and like I learned very early on that like that is what was important. It wasn’t the toys that was American girls hauls, know, like that was not what mattered. Like at the end of the day, when you’re when you’re sick, all that matters is like the people that you know, you’re surrounded with and getting to go to school. I remember I was so excited to finally get to go to

school again. Like, and you know, as kids, you’re always like, fix six day, you know, like, I don’t want to be there. But until you’re you don’t get to be there and see your friends every day and get to learn like, I just yeah, I really found some new newfound perspective at a really, really young age.

Jordan Anthony (34:45.228)
Wow.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (34:52.739)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (35:03.173)
Yeah, good for you. mean, unfortunately, many, if not all of us have to go through like hardships or tragedy or some kind of like, you know, fall or floor before we start to learn more about gratitude. I can relate when I was three, I had life changing, life saving open heart surgery and I’ve had an amazing life ever since. That doesn’t mean that that was the last hard thing I endured, but

Jordan Anthony (35:09.154)
you

Chloé Caroline (35:12.205)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (35:14.69)
Totally.

Chloé Caroline (35:15.575)
the end.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (35:30.613)
I appreciated my health so much. I appreciated my life so much because of that.

Chloé Caroline (35:30.743)
yeah.

Jordan Anthony (35:36.204)
Yeah, it’s perspective is.

Chloé Caroline (35:36.234)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like I, I think too, like as an artist to be able to, to have that perspective, to have gone through something, not that like, not that if you, if you, know, everybody has their own things that they go through and you can’t really compare if one’s more severe than the other, I guess, you know, but, but at the same time, like to be able to like, have an experience like that, and then put your art out there and have somebody see that and see that you

through it, I think is what keeps music alive, is what keeps people connected. And yeah, it wouldn’t have happened had I not gone through what I went through. Or maybe it would have been a different way. don’t know, you know?

Jordan Anthony (36:23.585)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (36:24.037)
I have so many cool things to pull at and ask, but I’m going to take a pause though. What happened to our buddy Jordan?

Chloé Caroline (36:30.958)
Yeah.

I don’t know. I don’t know where you went. Unless it’s frozen. Jordan, are you there?

Jordan Anthony (36:35.298)
Can you see me?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (36:39.491)
I don’t know.

Jordan Anthony (36:41.73)
Hello?

Chloé Caroline (36:44.366)
And it doesn’t look like it’s frozen, it kind of looks like it’s frozen, but I also can’t really tell. I don’t know.

Jordan Anthony (36:50.242)
Can you guys?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (36:51.311)
Well, he sort of walked off. And then I got a notification that said, recording, pause, recording, continuing. So don’t know if maybe he had to go to the bathroom or someone hit his door up. Do you want to?

Chloé Caroline (36:59.981)
Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (37:03.828)
Maybe somebody’s, yeah, let me text him.

Jordan Anthony (37:05.068)
Can you guys?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (37:06.723)
I was just going to say, like, cause I feel bad. He’s, you know, I don’t want to do the second half is just me talking. Bring back Jordan. Bring back Jordan.

Chloé Caroline (37:11.16)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. Yeah. I just texted him. Okay. he’s responding. Wait, he says he’s here?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (37:30.212)
What?

Chloé Caroline (37:36.866)
He says he can see and hear us. Wait.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (37:39.141)
Did you turn your did accidentally turn your recording off or something like maybe the video?

Chloé Caroline (37:46.722)
Yeah, Jordan, all we’re seeing is like, I don’t know what you’re sitting in front of, but we don’t see you at all. We just see like a backdrop of what looks like maybe a bed frame. But we can’t, yeah, we can’t. Let’s see. Is he able to leave and come back? Like rejoin?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (37:57.509)
Yeah, let’s figure it out.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (38:08.965)
yeah, you should be able to drop off and come back.

Chloé Caroline (38:14.734)
Uhhhh

Chloé Caroline (38:23.18)
Yeah, I don’t know. guess…

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (38:23.203)
I know that he definitely hit something because there was a notification that I got saying Jordan will continue recording on another device. And he walked off the screen and then came back and it showed that the upload file or whatever it was was… Yeah, we’ll figure it out.

Chloé Caroline (38:26.51)
Hmm.

Chloé Caroline (38:38.894)
Chloé Caroline (38:45.762)
Mm-hmm. Pause or something?

Okay, it looks like he left, so maybe he’s rejoining the link. Hopefully.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (38:57.241)
Yeah, we’ll give him a second.

We got lots of really good stuff so far. just don’t want to end with him not being involved, you know? So let’s go.

Chloé Caroline (39:05.55)
No, no, no, totally, no, yeah, it’d very weird. Here he is. Yes, you’re back. Oh my god.

Jordan Anthony (39:09.411)
Am I back? Guys, I’m so, I’m so, I have no idea.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (39:13.189)
You know what you have Riverside open in other tabs. it’s so hold on it says you have Riverside open in other tabs So you must have it open like in another tab on your browser, which is why it wasn’t

Chloé Caroline (39:27.534)
That’s so weird. Yeah, no, I was no wonder I kind of just kept trying to ramble. I thought you went to the bathroom. Like that’s what I was like.

Chloé Caroline (39:47.822)
Wait, you were talking? No, we didn’t hear anything! Literally, the last thing we heard from you was when you finished your sentence, like about what you had gone through and everything.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (40:04.826)
Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (40:09.902)
Yeah, yeah, we’re back for sure.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (40:11.469)
Yeah, we can hear you. got a bit of a delay, but that’s okay. So I’m still getting this thing. says Jordan. Anthony has Riverside open in other tabs. Asked Jordan to close all open browser tabs with Riverside. Okay. So now it’s that Jordan has stopped recording. Something went wrong and they’re not being recorded anymore.

Okay, now he’s gone again.

Chloé Caroline (40:36.566)
No, no! Shit!

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (40:41.17)
Thank you, as you know.

Chloé Caroline (40:44.434)
What was I saying? He was young?

Jordan Anthony (40:46.066)
I’ve

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (40:46.489)
Yeah, I’ll just give them the gears. Okay, we’re good. Don’t touch anything.

Jordan Anthony (40:50.279)
Okay, I think we’re good, yes. I’m not. That was really weird, I literally didn’t touch anything, but sorry guys.

Chloé Caroline (40:55.533)
Okay.

Chloé Caroline (40:59.192)
Perfect.

Jordan Anthony (41:00.923)
We love tech, Norgie. We’re back.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (41:02.553)
That’s okay.

Chloé Caroline (41:02.606)
That’s okay. I’m glad you know we weren’t ignoring you.

Jordan Anthony (41:09.895)
No, I was anyway. Yes.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (41:11.653)
You know what’s funny is like we might

I was just gonna say we should pick up from that point, like, because I know you guys are busy and I don’t want to keep it too long, but I figured if we chatted for another 10 or so minutes, then like Jordan would be involved in the conversation. But isn’t it funny how perspective is so important because Jordan is like, we’re having this amazing flow. And then all of a sudden, Jordan’s like, wow, these guys are being real dickheads and they’re just ignoring me. But our perspective is like, where the hell did this guy go?

Chloé Caroline (41:38.944)
you

Jordan Anthony (41:43.301)
Well, well I was.

Chloé Caroline (41:44.206)
Literally I was like, okay, I get-

Jordan Anthony (41:47.899)
Well, I was trying to say how important perspective was, but you guys ignored me and I was talking to myself. But it really is. It’s so, you know, because it’s like with my particular situation, you know, I’m out here in the States, all my family’s back home in Australia. And it is easy for me to be like, damn, like, it’s really sucks. Like I don’t get to see my family every day. And, know, but it’s also like, well, I get to be out here doing what I love every day. And I wouldn’t be having these experiences in the industry.

if it wasn’t for me being out here in the US. So it is, it’s, everything can be reframed. And I think it’s so easy for me to sit here and say that because some days I do find that hard to reframe things and, you know, reshift my perspective to create that positive light. But, you know, it really can be done for quite literally any situation, you know? So yeah, perspective is super important.

Chloé Caroline (42:31.384)
Mm-hmm.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (42:42.009)
Yeah.

think as normal man and what’s important is to be aware and acknowledge it. So was having a meeting with my business partner and one of my employees this morning and then.

Jordan Anthony (42:55.623)
You

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (42:59.257)
I don’t know how it came up. He sent me like a link on Instagram this morning. And it’s basically this, I forget the name. This is really cool project where this guy has a room and two chairs and it’s like two enemies and they make them have a conversation until they’re friends, basically until they understand other perspectives. And I told him, I really appreciate the sharing, but me being a human and me being, you know, prone to,

Chloé Caroline (43:15.66)
Ha ha!

Jordan Anthony (43:15.991)
Wow, that’s cool!

Chloé Caroline (43:19.351)
I love it.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (43:28.133)
issues just like everyone else when I saw the profile my gut reaction was this is so much bigger than mine someone else is already doing what you’re doing you’re not important who cares about you why would you continue to do this it makes no sense and I had to myself in that moment to say dude keep going there is value all art is beautiful all creation is beautiful it doesn’t matter what the audience is just keep going

Chloé Caroline (43:43.874)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (43:53.372)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (43:56.493)
And you just reminded me of that, Jordan. It’s so important to, no matter what you’re doing, to love what you’re doing and not be doing it because of a goal, because of accolades, but because it feels good.

Chloé Caroline (44:06.126)
Mm-mm. Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (44:09.113)
Absolutely.

Chloé Caroline (44:10.048)
Nope, no, you have to, I think again, it all comes back to like, what is your why for doing it? And is it bringing you joy? If it’s not bringing you joy anymore, why? You know, if trying to pinpoint like, yeah, what that is. And mean, I went through a total burnout, like right before COVID and I was living in Nashville at the time. I’d gone to college there and really like kickstarted my career there. And, and I was just like burning the pavement like every day.

Jordan Anthony (44:23.047)
Absolutely.

Chloé Caroline (44:39.952)
you know, to the point where like I wasn’t even really like living. It was like, what am I, I’m writing about stuff that happened years ago because I’m not actually living my life, you know, and I,

I finally kind of had to stop and be like, and I wouldn’t even write alone anymore. I remember and I started obviously writing by myself as clearly to clearly to Jordan and I just felt like I was wasting time. Like I remember literally having that perspective. If I’m writing alone for some reason, I’m wasting time. We know we’re not, we don’t have a demo or not, know, nobody else is involved, blah, blah, blah. And then finally, like I moved back to LA.

and it just happened to be right before COVID and I’d ended a relationship. We had been living together and so I moved in with my parents temporarily and I was forced to stop. I was forced to like learn how to be present again and to like write by myself and to like go and find like the small joys and just going for a walk or like what actually was like bringing me bringing me joy so I could write about it as opposed to

Jordan Anthony (45:40.102)
Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (45:47.904)
just like forcing, you know, every day doing the same thing without actually like doing something that was like filling my cup anymore. And it’s, yeah, it’s not an easy thing to acknowledge at the time.

Jordan Anthony (45:52.774)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (46:02.961)
Totally.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (46:05.453)
It’s never easy to acknowledge, but I think that it gets easier the more you do it and the more you hold space for yourself. you, we’ve talked a lot about gratitude, but especially you mentioned a religious upbringing and being Christian. Is that correct?

Chloé Caroline (46:13.582)
Mm-hmm.

Chloé Caroline (46:23.02)
Yeah, yeah, I’m Christian definitely and also just in general just like a very spiritual person I went through like a massive spiritual awakening around that same time.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (46:31.557)
Well, that makes sense, especially with like, you know, having gone through such a near death experience, but this isn’t about religion or spirituality. What those two things have in common is gratitude, yes, but also, my God, I lost the word that I was going to say. It’ll come back to me. Appreciation.

Jordan Anthony (46:50.776)
Let him go.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (46:54.573)
It doesn’t matter. This whole thing, see, this whole thing is the point is you fuck up sometimes and you just have to accept it and continue to go. And that’s the beauty of life is the content. Let me leave it here. We talked about your music. We talked about you guys and how you met and the meaning behind the song. We obviously are both grounded, kind, loving people who are doing things for the right reasons.

Jordan Anthony (47:06.534)
So I love you.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (47:25.241)
What is important for young artists, independent artists to know? Because there’s so many, there’s millions of artists out there that would wish they could have 40 to 150,000 followers on Instagram or all the millions of streams that you guys have already had. That’s something to be proud of. That’s something to aspire to. A lot of people want that, envy that. What are the things that helped you get there that are so critical to being an independent artist?

Jordan Anthony (47:54.886)
think for me personally, think making sure that you love it and every single thing that you do in this industry comes from that pure place of why you started it. I think like, I come to this realization sometimes it’s like when I was that seven year old writing songs about getting bullied, I wrote songs and music for me was an escape from the real world.

And now sometimes I catch myself having to escape from the music world. Now. So I think it’s actually like, it’s about making sure that the creation of the music is always coming from that pure place of like why you started and never forgetting why you’re doing it. You know, whether it’s for…

Chloé Caroline (48:25.644)
Yep.

Jordan Anthony (48:40.583)
Yourself or your younger self or for your family or to connect with as many people as possible through your lyrics and stories Just I think making sure you hold on to that and not doing it for an end goal or an end point because there is no end point because I’m sure if you ask Ariana Grande, you know, she’s probably still not completely fulfilled in the things that

she’s doing like even at the top like music has no tangible end point there’s it’s just this constant like next next next so i think yeah just holding on to that why and don’t forget why why you’re doing what you’re doing you know

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (49:24.001)
I love that. mean, there’s so many artists that have been quoted as saying like, want to die on the stage. I would literally want to go out on the stage because for them music is everything. And I think that’s the point, right? Like for people that have found their raison d’etre, their reason for living, they can’t not do it until it morphs into some other reason for living, right? And everyone’s reason for living is different, but…

Chloé Caroline (49:41.868)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (49:42.223)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (49:49.231)
Follow that passion to the very end. I’m gonna come back to you, Chloe, but because I believe in truth and honesty and the ugly warts and fucking up on your own podcast and forgetting something, it was forgiveness. Forgiveness was the word.

Chloé Caroline (50:02.796)
Ugh.

Jordan Anthony (50:03.375)
Love it.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (50:05.829)
And the thing that I learned is that forgiveness is not about the other person at all. It’s about forgiving yourself. It’s about being kind to yourself. And so when you mess up and you forget the word and you have to come back to it six minutes later, you can forgive yourself because you’re human and you’ve had a long day or whatever it is. Or you can be funny and then just blame Jordan because he was off camera for 10 minutes. It’s his fault.

Jordan Anthony (50:14.661)
Wow.

Jordan Anthony (50:21.669)
Mm.

Chloé Caroline (50:24.513)
Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (50:28.446)
Yeah, yeah, jeez.

Jordan Anthony (50:29.146)
blame it hey I’ll take you know I’ll take that seriously I’ll take it I’ll wear that one no never never but it’s so true

Chloé Caroline (50:34.622)
We’re like, he’s had enough of us.

Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (50:40.197)
But I think that that’s so important and you touched on it now with the industry too. It is like there’s no perfect science and sometimes you have to move back home and sometimes you’re broken, sometimes you’re rich and sometimes you have three horrible albums in a row and then all of a sudden, boom, you’re back to it. It’s all part of the flow. It’s all part of the process. If you forgive yourself and figure out, others and you’re grateful for what you do, I think that you have like a really good blueprint for how to live.

Chloé Caroline (51:06.286)
100%. And you know, you only, you can do what you do, you know? And so I think, again, like,

Jordan Anthony (51:07.31)
Absolutely.

Chloé Caroline (51:15.544)
what is it, comparison is the thief of joy. And it really is because like, again, we could sit here and I mean, God, Jordan can do these like crazy runs that like, I can do some runs not like him. And I might not ever be able to do those runs. like, but like we’re different people, you know, there might be something that I do that he doesn’t, know, and it doesn’t make anybody necessarily means they’re gonna be more successful or better or whatever. It’s just like,

Jordan Anthony (51:19.376)
totally.

Jordan Anthony (51:36.262)
Totally.

Chloé Caroline (51:44.91)
Only you do what you do. And you know, again, like I struggled to to to remind myself of that daily, you know, I see a girl and the other day I was like on Instagram and she’s kind of is that my whole thing is this kind of new Southern California vibe. Like that’s totally who I am. And this girl’s like a surfer and she’s surfing every day and she’s got her acoustic guitar on the beach. And I’m like, wait, wait, is she like doing it better than I am? Like I don’t I don’t surf every day. Like, am I supposed to be like a surfer in order for my brand to be

authentically California and blah blah blah and like you just start overthinking things and it’s like no but like she’s doing what she does really well and I do what I do really well and it’s resonating and it’s connecting and the only way it’s gonna do that is if

you’re, yeah, doing it from that place of truth, you know, not trying to like chase what somebody else is doing, which is so easy to be tempted to do, especially in a world even with algorithms that prefer things to sound a certain way in order to make them make sense for the algorithm, you know, like

I sometimes question like, if my sound sounded more identical to Billie Eilish, would it get immediately playlisted more? Maybe, but like, is that Chloe? So I think that’s a big thing that I, big piece of advice that I would have for artists is just reminding yourself that only you do what you do.

Jordan Anthony (52:49.125)
Totally.

Jordan Anthony (53:06.959)
that.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (53:11.631)
So it sounds like both of you are coming from a place of just like be unapologetically, authentically yourself and just go.

Jordan Anthony (53:12.297)
Amen.

Jordan Anthony (53:20.301)
It truly is the only way, yeah.

Chloé Caroline (53:20.384)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And if you, think we questioned that. So like, I know for me too, like I’ve never wanted to be put into a box. I’ve always really struggled with that. I struggle writing my own bio and looking at my career and all the various things I’ve done and somehow trying to sum it up into a paragraph. Like it’s difficult for me to do that.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (53:23.557)
Thank

Jordan Anthony (53:29.731)
Yeah.

Chloé Caroline (53:42.414)
But I think, again, like you figure out more and more who you are when you’re able to identify just, again, those things that light you up, no matter how small they are. And so when I’m feeling lost, I try to remember what those are. And it might not have nothing to do with music, you know, again, like, cause I agree, Jordan, like I’ve found myself to the more you…

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (53:58.725)
Hmm.

Chloé Caroline (54:07.838)
especially we have to be everything. We have to wear so many different hats now as independent artists and it’s easy to kind of get trapped.

Jordan Anthony (54:17.208)
It is, yeah.

Chloé Caroline (54:17.874)
And yeah, you have to allow yourself to kind of like step out of the music bubble for a little bit and then also to like go back to music that you grew up loving. I do that too because sometimes like I’ll find myself not listening to music. Like I don’t listen to music like I used to. Which is kind of sad sometimes because I listen to it almost with a different frame of mind now that I’m actually in the industry. Which I don’t love so I have to like…

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (54:33.689)
Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (54:42.073)
Yeah.

Totally.

Chloé Caroline (54:47.818)
myself out of that.

Jordan Anthony (54:49.829)
Totally.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (54:50.307)
Yeah, my mindset is so important when it comes to everything. And it’s not just about like, you know, feeling good every day, because that’s not possible. You’re not going to feel good every day. But it’s about having like the wherewithal to catch yourself feeling a certain way or think yourself certain way, and then changing that. And that comes back to what you were saying, Jordan, about his perspective or position. I don’t know why. like, yesterday, I got fed stories about Paul Alexander, the guy in the Iron Lung. Have you guys heard about this guy before?

Chloé Caroline (55:18.862)
no, I don’t think so.

Jordan Anthony (55:19.013)
I haven’t heard of it,

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (55:21.189)
Okay, this is the crazy, this for me is like such a like apropos example of what we’re talking about right now. So this dude, I had never heard about him. His name is Paul Alexander. He was the guy or the man in the iron lung. He died at 70. Oh God, 72.

He lived until 2024. He contracted polio as a kid and then basically was paralyzed from the neck down, couldn’t breathe or anything on his own. The only way he lived was in this crazy machine called an iron lung that was breathing for him and everything. He still managed to pass the bar and become a lawyer. He still managed to write his own biography like himself, with his mouth. He painted with his mouth.

Chloé Caroline (55:44.387)
Mm-hmm.

Chloé Caroline (56:00.237)
Wow.

Jordan Anthony (56:03.598)
Wow.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (56:07.879)
All perspectives. So are you going to give up or are you going to keep going? That is how simple it is.

Jordan Anthony (56:09.539)
Incredible.

Chloé Caroline (56:12.728)
Yeah.

Yep, yep, 100%. Yep, it’s a choice. It’s not, again, it’s not easy at all. It’s definitely a conscious choice.

Jordan Anthony (56:15.183)
Totally.

Jordan Anthony (56:26.073)
And if it was, everyone would do it, you know?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (56:26.61)
I really appreciate it.

Chloé Caroline (56:28.94)
Yeah, exactly. I wish everyone would do it. We’d probably be a little bit more involved.

Jordan Anthony (56:32.044)
Right, right.

I needed that little reminder, so thank you for that.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (56:43.415)
I appreciate both you and your time and your art and what you’re doing, like just being here and sharing with me a little bit. It’s really, I’m really grateful for it. So thank you so much for jumping on today. Do me a favor. Do me a favor and give us a couple like, you know, each of you, I love to end with the guest where you give me a final word, a final thought. Could be short, could be long, just sign us off with something that people need to hear.

Jordan Anthony (56:55.407)
Seriously, I pledge though.

Chloé Caroline (56:57.186)
Likewise.

Chloé Caroline (57:13.776)
Ooh.

Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (57:18.617)
Be kind and smile at people. Or someone smiles at you, smile back. It’s that simple, guys. Like, you know, let’s just be good humans and be kind.

Chloé Caroline (57:23.532)
Yes. Yes. It really is. Honestly though, dude, I was at Chipotle recently. It was after our show and I was like, I was there and as late, you know, it was like the, yeah, I was like starving, but you know, you could tell like the girl there was just like done, you know, it was like, this is like the Chipotle in West Hollywood and she was like tired and you know, just like kind of like meh, like, but.

Jordan Anthony (57:36.439)
No way.

Chloé Caroline (57:53.19)
she folded my burrito the best I’ve ever seen it folded and it was stuffed. Okay. And I remember I looked at her I’m like, girl, that’s incredible. was like, wrapped the burrito. That was amazing. And you could tell she like kind of chuckled. And then at the end, like she’s checking me out. She’s like,

I love your eye makeup, blah blah blah. And she’s like, you you guys are really nice. I hope you have a good night. And you could tell like, you know, it’s just, wasn’t anything crazy. I genuinely, she wrapped my burrito like a champ, but it’s like little stuff like that goes a long way with people. It really does. Just being, being kind. Yeah.

Jordan Anthony (58:28.741)
Yo, just be kind.

Jordan Anthony (58:33.999)
Pretty much.