Thom Skarzynski on Artist Development, Album Strategy, Streaming Myths & Superfan Strategy // #073

heartdea13r Podcast w/ chr1stoph3r g0nda // Episode 73 // Thom Skarzynski (Happiness. Marketing)

Episode Summary:

Seasoned industry vet, Record Label mainstay, and founder of Happiness. Marketing, Thom Skarzynski, explores the evolving landscape of the music industry, artist development, and the importance of mindset, luck, and authenticity in success. Thom Skarzynski shares his extensive experience in the music industry, emphasizing the importance of physical media, artist marketing strategies, and fostering genuine fan relationships. Discover practical tips on how artists can leverage physical products, chart strategies, and authentic engagement to build a sustainable career.

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Full Episode Transcript:

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (00:00.088)

Thom Skarzynski (01:46.198)
Yeah, you do a lot. Yeah, yeah. Which is wonderful. I mean, this is the way to go, especially, you know, with the way, you know, things are going in the industry and, and, you know, things are swaying and, you know, I think doing it on your own is kind of, it’s definitely satisfying. you know, you’re, you’re in control of, of your destiny kind of a little bit, at least.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (02:11.798)
Yeah, which I think will tie into kind of what we talk about with the music and the bands today. So this is where I want to start. We’re to be very profound. So I’m like looking you up. I go to your Instagram and on your Instagram it says, the universe is unfolding exactly as it should. And I was like, yes, that’s where I’m starting. Tell me about this.

Thom Skarzynski (02:28.878)
it’s a quote that I love. And I don’t think that it nails it either, but it says, my God, it says, whatever you may think the universe is unfolding exactly how it should. Yeah, it’s from a poem, God, I used to know everything about it, but I’m a big believer of just ride the wave, you know, like.

everything, just go with it. I mean, I’ve had good times, great times, my kids, my wife, my all this, like great stuff. I’ve had definite bad times. I put a lot of myself into my work and when things happen there, it sucks, but everything is unfolding how it should and so far things have worked out.

I’m also a person that I, you know, it could unfold in a negative way. I don’t know. Everybody knows a person that like is just down on their luck and you can’t, they can’t get out of it, you know? And you know, it’s, I could be that person in a week. you know, I am in control of my destiny right now. And I feel that way. How do you feel about that line? Like, what does that mean to you?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (03:38.115)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (03:53.742)
A lot of what you said is exactly how I feel. I actually just finished reading the surrender experiment by Michael A. Singer and he is very much like, dude, it’s the flow. It’s not about what we want or what we don’t want. Our likes or dislikes, because that’s how we as humans make choices, get into what the universe is presenting in front of you and go with that instead. So I’m like that, man. I got poor Vita tattooed on the back here. So I’m all about going with the flow.

Thom Skarzynski (04:10.508)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (04:15.948)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (04:20.142)
Yeah, totally. Well, that’s the thing. It’s like, you know, I always used to say, and I still kind of say like ride the wave because sometimes the wave takes you over. Sometimes you go under. Sometimes you’re having a great time with it. But, know, it’s going to crash eventually and you’ll get back in. And that’s kind of, you know, the way I look at life. And yeah, I have a wave tattooed. I don’t know where it’s tattooed on my arm.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (04:35.374)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (04:47.682)
There it is. Wave tattooed all the way down. Just ride the wave. it’s a… Yeah, it’s… There’s nothing else you can do. You don’t have a choice. You’re on it. You’re in it. Sometimes you dive in, sometimes you’re out and you’re struggling, but you know…

You don’t have a choice and that goes with any profession, not just music for sure. know what mean? It’s crazy to think, like, I’ve been in this industry, like, working, starting as an assistant for 20 years and…

You know, I started and I was like, you know, I’m young and I’m this like young hotshot and all this kind of stuff. And all this time went by and it’s like, I have all of this knowledge out of nowhere. And I just, now I’m at a place in my life where…

You know, I have kids and it’s like, just want to provide for my family and, and, know, use my skillset for, for the best. And that’s what I feel like I get to do with, with this happiness venture is just, you know, I’m only working with people that I genuinely love and you know, that I, I know are good people. And I, yeah, I just feel like it.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (05:55.864)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (06:05.55)
You know, the industry used to be filled with a lot of bad actors. A lot of them have gone away. But yeah, there’s a lot more peace in working with people that you enjoy and that you like, trust, you know?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (06:20.64)
Mm-hmm. Let’s go back to that point about the wave. You know, it’s funny because and we’ll unpack all of this. We’ll unpack the bad actors and the industry and whatnot. like artists seem to always think that there’s a way of doing things or things need to be done this way. And the fact of the matter is that there is until there isn’t that it’s always

Thom Skarzynski (06:30.87)
Yeah!

Thom Skarzynski (06:43.616)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (06:44.814)
way you know what mean like the way to market and release and distribute is constantly changing and having an open mind to how that’s done I think is really key now more than ever because there’s so many options whereas before it was more like there’s a there’s a role away and now it’s not

Thom Skarzynski (06:59.064)
Totally.

Thom Skarzynski (07:03.214)
Yeah, and it’s the opposite too. you said, there is a…

there is a way until there isn’t, but also there isn’t a way until there is, you know? Like, it goes both ways. And what’s so funny, I used to bring this up all the time, but like when TikTok was breaking songs left and right, every time I would ask like, what happened? There was always a point in the story where somebody says, and then something happened and it just exploded. And it’s like, what was that something? You know? And no one could ever like…

figure it out, like what it was. It just took off on its own kind of thing. And that always interested me because it’s like, you know, all of those songs, it’s like, you know, and then something happened and that’s like.

You need luck in this industry. I’ve worked some of my favorite things in the entire world that maybe didn’t perform the way that I thought they should have. But you know what? Maybe they just didn’t hit the right people at the right time. Nowadays too, release dates are almost irrelevant. Obviously everyone wants a big first week and all this, but release dates are when people discover your music. That’s all it is.

For me, especially from a marketing style, it’s like keep the music out there. Again, it’s riding the wave. If you get out of the ocean, there’s no way that the wave is going to take you. You’re going to have a fun ride. I’m a big believer in that. When I market an artist, it’s…

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (08:41.294)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (08:44.278)
You know, the marketing plan is we’re going to stay visible for as long as possible and hope that that and then something happens, happens for us. But like, you know, and, and listen, you know.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (08:53.858)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (08:57.95)
There used to be levers there used to be like tick-tock or radio or editorial playlists or TV performances and all these things that like You know don’t mean the same as they once did but there’s still like that’s keeping it out there and that’s like for me just That that’s the key to marketing these days, you know, cuz nobody knows if somebody knew they’d you know, they’d be crushing it

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (09:25.718)
I like what you said that the release date is when someone discovers your music and it’s so true that it’s my album’s out and no one’s listening. I’m giving up. That doesn’t mean that no one’s gonna hear it. It doesn’t mean that this is the riot and the journey and the way for you is gonna be different than everyone. mean, like, I don’t know why, but I thought of Sugarman, right? Searching for Sugarman and how like he was huge and didn’t even know it. And he was huge in a totally different part of the world. And…

Thom Skarzynski (09:48.908)
Yeah!

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (09:52.896)
It goes both ways with discovering, right? Discovering your audience and discovering the music. And I think that what you said before, luck is accurate, but it’s not just luck. It’s luck. It’s a good product. It’s the amount of hustle you put into it. And then it’s also timing, right? There’s so many elements to it and you can’t really take any of them for credit and you can’t give up. I had this conversation recently where someone was saying how…

The only reason that people haven’t made it yet is because they give up before they make it. And then most of the time, you give up. Like, the making it is right around the corner. So you can’t stop.

Thom Skarzynski (10:22.818)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (10:27.926)
Yeah, yeah, it’s true, but…

And I don’t know well, but what’s the sunken cost fallacy where people keep going because they feel like they’ve already invested too much. So there’s also that trap too, where sometimes it’s not right around the corner and it’s like, it’s hard to navigate. Again, like I always, there’s a bit of luck that has to like click in. You can be great at your job, but like you need the right people at the right time and all of this kind of stuff. So it’s tough. mean, you know,

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (10:39.778)
Yeah, true.

Thom Skarzynski (11:01.04)
I’m discovering just how many great people are looking for work right now. And it’s interesting because it’s like, know this person is excellent at their job and they just need to find someone that’s looking for someone like them and they’ll nail it. But it’s the finding that person that like is the hard part, right? Like, yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (11:27.106)
like how we talked about the wave and going with the flow and in this conversation, you’ve already checked me a couple of times by saying like, yeah dude, but it’s also from the opposite angle, right? There’s always an equal and opposite reaction. So as much as you got to keep going sometimes you have to cut your losses. So I’m starting to get a picture of the mindset. You’re in Jersey now, is that where you were born? Like where did you grow up? How were you raised?

Thom Skarzynski (11:42.861)
So do it.

Thom Skarzynski (11:49.528)
Yep.

Super lucky I was born in central New Jersey. My parents were awesome. We were right by the train station, so I was able to get into the city. I mean, another lucky thing. If I was born, you know…

somewhere in the middle of the country, I wouldn’t have had access to New York. you know, I started interning when I was 13 or 14 years old, just at, you know, management companies, I did like, you know, helped with festivals, like just kind of the grunt work, but whatever, I just wanted to be a part of it. You know, I was in someone’s apartment at one point, and he paid us in Red Bull. You know, and eventually it led me to

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (12:10.734)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (12:34.138)
an internship at Atlantic Records, which I ended up, you know, turning into my job and things went from there. But for me, like growing up, like in central Jersey was, was, it was lucky, you know, I mean, it was, my parents were able to drop me off at the train station in five minutes and I could be in the city and, know, I could go to that internship and that, you know, like.

What’s funny is even before that, I was maybe like, I would say 13 years old, but I had a website that I will not name, but I used to interview bands and music executives. And I don’t know if Google was a thing back then, like, but I just did zero research beforehand. So the interviews are so cringy and like, there’s very high profile people in there. Like John Janik, I interviewed twice and you know, it just so cringy like fallout boy and you know, I was all of.

that Pete Wentz was my who I was doing the interview with because who cares about the bassist and all this kind of stuff like I just it was it was so amateur but I just wanted to be a part of it and my whole thing was like I’m gonna make myself a part of it until somebody lets me in and that was my entire mindset when I was young was like if they’re not gonna let me in then I’m gonna get myself in on my own and that’s what I started

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (13:49.1)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (13:58.465)
started to do and what I was able to do. And now it’s kind of the same, right? Like I’m going to stay in because I’m going to continue working in this industry. it’s the same but different. It just changes.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (14:11.267)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (14:14.702)
Yeah. You should name the site because as much as you think it’s cringing, you’re like, that’s your truth and that’s your arc. And I think it shows how much it means to you when you’re passionate about something and you find your way in.

Thom Skarzynski (14:19.169)
Nope. Never.

Thom Skarzynski (14:31.062)
No, never, never, never, never. It’s long gone. It was deleted one day, kind of out of nowhere. Yeah, yeah. It’s done, done forever. And I’m okay with that. I was a kid. was, know, honestly, I feel weird saying it, but 25 years ago, maybe? mean, honestly, I was 13 years, like, I got it as a birthday present. It’s all I wanted, so.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (14:37.655)
you pulled it off, you pulled it off.

Thom Skarzynski (15:00.854)
Yeah, yeah, no thank you. But it led to other things. And that’s the thing is like, you know, I would meet John Janik and then I’d go to a festival and he would be there and I’d go up and say hi to him. And then, you know, he was working for Atlantic and I was interning there. And, you know, eventually like, you know, a couple of steps happened, but it led to me working for Feel By Ramen, which John founded and I worked directly for him for a while.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (15:03.694)
That’s all good, man.

Thom Skarzynski (15:29.154)
you know, then he left to run, you know, Interscope and his careers exploded. But it’s like all these little connections that I got from this website that, you know, I was a young kid on, but like, you know, I felt like I knew these people a little bit. I, maybe that was the luck too, was I was less intimidated by.

saying hello to them in the hallway or stopping by their office to say, hey, you know, I’m dropping off my resume, you know, my last day is next week kind of thing. And it worked out for me. mean, luck, luck definitely has something to do with it. You know, I, definitely, you know, was, I had the first one in last one out mentality, which, you know, you find less and less these days, but that was kind of the grind was like, you know, just.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (15:57.762)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (16:17.13)
always be there and you know we had our community of people that did the same.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (16:18.947)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (16:22.286)
Yeah, I’m with you, man. I’m always grinding. And I think that it’s the Jordan approach, right? First one on the court, last one off the court. You just keep taking buckets. You keep shooting and keep practicing. You keep that website to yourself. But I got to ask you, did you say you got it as a birthday gift with the website was? That’s so cool.

Thom Skarzynski (16:39.786)
I did, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I mean, I didn’t have money back then. I was too young to have a job. like, yeah, I mean, whatever it was, know, 25 bucks or whatever, and then hosting it. And it was a whole thing, you know, it wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t as easy as it is now. But yeah, it was it was definitely.

It started me off. And then, you know, I would join fan clubs. I was a part of like the OK Go fan club and they would mail me like boxes of stickers to hand out at shows and all this kind of stuff that I was just like, I just want to be a part of this, you know? I mean.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (17:17.698)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (17:18.606)
I’ll never forget seeing artists on stage and I didn’t know how to play an instrument, but I was like, I wanna be a part of behind the scenes. When they go back there, I wanna be the guy back there waiting for them. So I’ve always had that role. I just enjoy it. Do you play instruments? I see a guitar behind you.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (17:32.589)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (17:40.022)
I picked up like, well, my parents were very much like, you’re gonna do a whole bunch of stuff that we tell you to do when you were younger, not because we’re being mean, but because we know that this will help you like foundationally. So for me, one of the big ones was piano, right? When I was little, they’re like, you have to piano lessons, you gotta learn how to read sheet music. I don’t care if you’re a pianist, but you’re gonna learn. And that led me to picking up the guitar and having a band in high school. But I mean,

Thom Skarzynski (17:53.41)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (18:06.617)
That’s cool.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (18:07.968)
It dropped off. don’t play. I’m behind the scenes guy. I prefer it that way. What was your musical discovery? Because I want to talk about like how you named your company. Don’t share the story yet because that for me is a cool one. But like, how did you get into music? What started this whole career?

Thom Skarzynski (18:13.198)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (18:26.767)
I mean, honestly, I was at a show at Starlin Ballroom in New Jersey. And I remember, yeah, it was the band Brand New who, you know, I know it’s a bit controversial, but still one of my favorite bands. And I just remember, like, they were so incredible and everybody sang every word. And all I wanted was to just…

be friends with them in some way and get behind the scenes. And, you know, I was like, this is how it has to happen. And, you know, I just did, I forced my way in. It’s hard, you know, I took any internship I can get. And what’s funny is the people that I interned with back then are still in the industry today. Like the people I was assistants with back then are still in the industry today. Like that’s what, like.

I always say like treat people well because it comes around. It’s a big industry, but it’s also a very small industry. yeah, I I interned for a lot of indies and I interned for Network Music Group and they, cause they managed brand new at the time and they did the format who I loved and they did, you it was like, it was great. I loved it. And then,

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (19:28.178)
yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (19:50.863)
Yeah, I eventually got an internship with Atlantic and I was not into it. I was like, I’m an indie guy. I don’t want majors. And then when I saw how the machine worked at Atlantic, I was like, this is awesome. you know, this is, you know, I’m no longer licking envelopes all day. Like this is cool. I, you know, here’s a story about it, but

I also worked at Target at the same time and I kind of figured music industry was, I was like, there’s no way I’m going to break into it. It’s impossible. So that was kind of like my backup plan, right? And like working at Target was, you know, I used to wear a tie. was like front end manager. I worked every position to be there. Like I was ready to have a career there. And there was a day that I was let go from Target.

It was over something stupid. Me and all the front end managers got let go. We weren’t stealing money or anything. We were just the surveys on the receipts. We were giving ourselves high scores anytime we had one and we weren’t allowed to do that, I guess. So we got fired and, you know, I was upset and all that. But my backup plan became my only plan. So, you know, I was on unemployment, but I would be the first one in as an intern and the last one out as an intern.

I kind of said like, I don’t have a backup plan anymore. Like, this is it. Like, I have to break into music. I don’t know what else I would do. So that was it, you know, and.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (21:24.216)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (21:31.851)
I just before that, my superior at the time had said, shape up or ship out. And it really clicked. mean, I was like, now’s the time. I got to shape up, you know? And I showed a difference. And then when he went on vacation for two weeks, I covered for him and did well. And it ended up with interviews. And eventually I landed something. And I’ll forever be grateful for that. It was at Roadrunner.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (21:56.59)
face.

Thom Skarzynski (21:59.777)
And I wasn’t necessarily into the music, but I was just grateful to be there.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (22:04.652)
Yeah, that’s awesome, man. It’s funny, I was talking to my business partner Lance this morning, one of my best friends. We’ve both been going through a whole bunch of just hellacious personal stuff. I’m kind of like in the the ebb now and he’s in the flow and he’s getting all kinds of horrible stuff.

Thom Skarzynski (22:21.519)
Okay.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (22:22.604)
And we were talking this morning and I brought up the Bronx, their fourth album, which is, think if you’re a Bronx, like Die Hard, the fourth album is like one of the least interesting. For me, that was my entry point into the Bronx. And so for me, it’s my favorite album, because that’s the one that I discovered them with. But they got this one lyric, which is, sometimes the best laid plans still end with blood on your hands. So you have to constantly flow, because even if you have it all figured out,

Thom Skarzynski (22:35.244)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (22:40.257)
Yeah!

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (22:51.488)
It still might go to shit.

Thom Skarzynski (22:53.057)
Yeah, you’re 100 % right. mean, and that’s the thing. just, you know, yeah, it’s a roll of the dice. mean, I could have just ended as the first intern in, last one out, and then when it ended, it ended, and that was it. And, you know, every time there’s been an exit from the music industry, I wonder to myself, like, you know, am I done? Is the dream over? You know, like, and, you know, with happiness.

I’m able to continue it and take control of my own destiny. yeah, you know, I’ve always wanted to be a part of this and every single time there’s been a hiccup or something’s changed, I had the thought like, you know, it’s too good to be true. This was bound to happen, you know. It just, yeah, it’s a tough industry to be in for sure.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (23:40.429)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (23:47.926)
It is, but that’s funny. like, I’m getting to the point now where I’m referencing my previous guests because they have so much amazing insight and wisdom. And you just reminded me of two. One was Anne Shapiro over at Vivo. She’s such a sweetheart. I was lucky to interview with her last year. And she said, when I was asking like, what is your main, you know,

Thom Skarzynski (24:00.684)
Yeah, yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (24:08.406)
Main advice, she said be kind, know, be kind. You never know who’s listening or who’s going to be someone that you would need to work with in the future or who will help you out. So just be kind. It sounds like you’ve been doing the same thing with your career.

Thom Skarzynski (24:11.023)
Mmm.

Thom Skarzynski (24:22.723)
You know what?

I, it took me time to learn. I was never a mean, or I don’t like to think I was a mean person, but I had qualities that I’m not proud of. you know, there were times I was put into a corner and I, you know, like got more aggressive than I wanted to. Never like, I’m not a yeller or anything like that, but like, you know, I am a firm believer in like people growing and, you know, the person that you

knew a year ago was maybe not the person that I am today. And I like to believe that because, know, along the way, again, it’s big industry, but a small industry. And I’ve lost friends along the way that I’ve, you know, that I’ve really loved. And I like to think that if, you know, things were to ever come around that they would see that, you know, there’s a difference in the person that I am. And yeah, I mean, I don’t know. I mean, I just…

I try, I’m trying my best to get better all the time and I don’t always succeed, but I at least like to think I learned from it.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (25:33.314)
love that sentiment, man. Like, it’s very real, it’s very humble, and I think it’s so important. you know, part of these conversations is, like I said, about the mindset, it’s about the real person behind the business or the art or whatever it is.

I think people forget that we’re human and that to air is human and we’re fallible and we fuck up and we learn along the way and we’re not gonna get better and grow if we don’t fail. Failure and making mistakes is so important and also acknowledging it. Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (25:57.357)
Yes, yes.

Thom Skarzynski (26:02.382)
Yes?

Thom Skarzynski (26:08.217)
Yes.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (26:09.29)
I was a worse person or I did that bad thing or I lied or I shouldn’t have done, but you know what? I’m sorry and I won’t do that again because I’ve learned. So good for you.

Thom Skarzynski (26:17.719)
Yeah. I mean, I’m trying. I’m still, you know, there’s relationships still on the mend, but I’m trying. mean, as things go on, you know, we’ll see what happens. But in the meantime, I’m just going to continue doing my thing. And, you know, I’m happy day to day. You know, I get to work with great people and great artists and, you know, like.

Again, I surround myself with people I genuinely like and I’ve met so many new people since I left the major system. It’s funny when you’re in it, it’s almost a bubble, right? And it’s the same people you work with every day and all this. And now that I’m out of it, I’m meeting all these very interesting people and some of them are running companies that are just brilliant, you know? it’s nice, like meeting people, even meeting

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (26:46.285)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (27:11.433)
I mean, like, what a blessing, you know? Like, I’m not a religious person, but, like, how cool is this, right? I mean, that we’re talking right now. I mean, if I was still doing my old role, we would not be talking right now. I’d be heads down, you know, working on something.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (27:19.117)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (27:29.677)
I’m gonna butcher the quote, but someone did make a quote about like, when you work in an office, they find a way to occupy all of your time. there’s always a way that it fills the day. Whereas when you work for yourself, like you can find the time, you know, on your own kind of thing. And some days that’s true, some days that’s not. Some days I’m, you know, working all night, but it is…

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (27:55.149)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (27:55.723)
At least it’s my choice. I don’t have someone looking over my shoulder. Yeah, I just want to do good work and that’s it.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (28:05.006)
I’m with you and I think that when you’re a lifer, especially in the music industry, maybe it’s not even the music industry, when you’re a lifer, like when you find that passion, the Japanese word is ikigai, when you find that thing that you’re supposed to do, you’re a raison d’etre, like you don’t see any other option. I spoke with Randy Bradbury, who’s I believe the bassist in Pennywise and…

Thom Skarzynski (28:27.917)
Whatever makes.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (28:29.11)
Cameron Webb who’s like a really successful well-known producer they’re in this punk band 84 days together we’re chatting and Cameron’s like I start to ask him about like you know how does he pick projects to produce to work with he says the first thing I do every time is ask him are you a lifer

Thom Skarzynski (28:49.272)
Mm-hmm.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (28:49.39)
Because if they’re not, I know that they’re not gonna like take it as seriously as I will when it comes to the production or talking about an album in the studio. And it sounds like you’re doing the same thing where you’re asking that question like, are you in?

Thom Skarzynski (28:55.513)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (29:02.071)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that’s a huge part of it, you know, definitely.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (29:08.686)
So what I mean, I want to talk about your history a bit more and obviously all the incredible companies you worked for. like with a project that you take on now with happiness marketing, what are some of the prerequisites to qualify if you want to take on the job?

Thom Skarzynski (29:24.459)
you know, it’s interesting. It varies case by case. mean, there some artists that I helped like,

you know, their entire direct to consumer plan and help design this stuff. You know, right now I’m working with a manufacturer and a designer to put together vinyl at the last minute and to make it extra cool and to find like the variant colors that they want. you know, of course I’m doing everything through a third party. But it’s more like product managing on this on some sides and, you know, then trying to hit our number.

You know, I have a marketing end to sales background, so I like to utilize them both when I can. So, you know, I get into the weeds. I like to get my hands dirty. Then there’s other ones that I’ll be called, you know, the weekend that comes out and it’s like, can you help out?

Sometimes I can and sometimes I can’t, know, and it’s it’s always tough because I always you know, sometimes I bite off more than I can chew and I I you know, you know, I just what was it two weekends ago my wife and mother-in-law and I were you know, label labeling boxes in our garage to go out to UPS to go to like record stores and stuff like that. Like it’s it’s it’s you know.

It changes day by day. And then there’s an opportunity that with a major tour that’s coming up that we’re talking about doing. And then there’s some merchandising opportunities that we’re talking about doing. then…

Thom Skarzynski (31:03.887)
You know, there’s a lot of random things. There’s this big initiative with indie retail that I’m slowly working on. like outside of happiness marketing, it is taking these twists and turns of like, yes, I like that and I love the people that I get to work with there. But I’m also really enjoying meeting new people and understanding or starting to understand new sectors of the business and really like.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (31:22.254)
Mm-hmm.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (31:29.624)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (31:33.751)
Yeah, diving into it, like head first, you know? mean, it’s scary, but at the same time, I have to trust that, I’ve learned enough about the consumer and fandom and, like, everyone focuses on the fan, but how do you create a superfan? And I like to think that I have found the ways to do that. And that’s what I bring to the table with most of my stuff.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (32:01.422)
So it sounds like you’re trying, I mean, you have a core business, you’re trying a lot of things, you’re exploring and experimenting. And I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but when it comes to taking on a project, it sounds like you’re almost asking yourself, and I think this is a good thing, can I add value?

Thom Skarzynski (32:18.959)
Oh yeah, the first question I always ask is what’s the goal? Are you going for a first week? Are you going to work this all year? Is this a revenue thing? what’s the goal for this one? Because if it’s unattainable, then no.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (32:23.117)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (32:32.268)
Mm-hmm.

Thom Skarzynski (32:37.141)
if it’s one that we want to develop an artist and there’s some labels that are just great at it, it’s like I’m in it for the long run. Like, and you know, I I’ll I’ll sign on early and just stay on forever if you want me. Like, I’m not charging you monthly. I’m here until you’re big. You know, like I I believe in artist development and artist growth and authenticity and all of that kind of stuff that like feels like it. I don’t know.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (32:54.798)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (33:06.457)
It feels like it gets lost sometimes, but also it doesn’t. And here’s something really, really interesting. And it’s a little off topic, but not totally. But I think you’ll find it interesting.

Recently, I had to just give a quote for two articles about record store listening parties, which everybody’s doing now. It’s like it’s a checklist thing, right? Like it and there’s ways to make it special. And people have done great jobs. But one was with The Economist. The other was just within Ohio State newspaper. But both interviewers said this is going to be the first time I ever step into a record store. And it made me think to myself that, like,

Like you’ve never even been, like the smell of a record store is an experience, know, like flipping through the bins. Like it is, it’s such, it’s not nostalgia. It’s, it’s, it’s almost like discovery, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s brand new to these kids.

And that’s why it’s like, bring them in and let’s find new ways to bring them in and keep these businesses thriving. you know, I don’t know about you, but I’m pretty sure it’s probably the same. I grew up in a record store, you know? Like I must’ve applied at my local record store when I was, you know, 12 years old. Every other day, I probably filled out a job application, you know? Like I just, I lived in it. like.

It’s interesting, there’s this whole new generation that just has not experienced it and are getting a chance to now.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (34:40.268)
Yeah, man, they were so important for me and for my musical discovery. I’m from Toronto originally, and I spent most of my life there. And as a family, whenever we had some vacation time, we would often go to Florida, right? It was a really easy flight. It’s just down the East Coast. And I remember saving up my Christmas money or allowance or whatever it was. And we’d get down to Florida where things were less expensive. And we’d be like, Mom, Dad, take us to, my God, was it like Circuit City? It was like New York.

Thom Skarzynski (34:55.576)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (35:08.369)
my god, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (35:09.314)
with a big, big, and we would just be like, all right, I’m dropping a hundred bucks. How many CDs can I buy? And we just come home with many things that we could add to our collection as possible.

Thom Skarzynski (35:14.607)
Yeah, yeah, yeah!

Thom Skarzynski (35:18.849)
Yeah, I always ask people and it’s a hard question, but do you remember the first CD you ever bought with your own money?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (35:27.464)
man, first CD I physically bought. I don’t think I remember the first CD I bought, but I remember like the first dozen to two dozen CDs I got, whether it was through a gift or trading with someone at school. And it’s a weird mixture. It’s a very weird mixture. I don’t know if you like care to hear what it was. man, like so I grew up around a lot of music. I grew up around classical.

Thom Skarzynski (35:48.811)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course I do, yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (35:56.054)
Jazz a little bit of blues and classic rock. Those are the things that were kind of prevalent in my house because of my parents my grandparents But I remember getting Janet like Janet self-titled album, Jackson Mariah Carey’s music box legend by Bob Marley

Thom Skarzynski (36:10.082)
Yeah, yeah!

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (36:16.334)
a bunch of old school hip hop. like, yes, the mainstream stuff like Vanilla Ice, MC Hammer, but then like Rex and the Fact, Public Enemy, Naughty by Nature, around the same time. And then within a few months period, all of a sudden, through discovery at school, had like, I had some Aerosmith, I had some Redman, I had Jimi Hendrix, The Ultimate Experience, had Nirvana, Rage Against the Machine, the list goes on, but there’s just so much. And then once you become junkie, then it’s like, I must have it all. And then you start getting the back out logs and you

Thom Skarzynski (36:41.198)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (36:44.719)
Yeah, yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (36:46.308)
like you get dookie and then you’re like wait hold on Green Day has Kerplunk and 1039 smooth out Slappy Hours and you start to collect everything. What about you?

Thom Skarzynski (36:53.935)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ll never forget. I have the cassette for Dookie. It was amazing. Yeah. I mean, the first one I ever bought with my own money was No Doubt’s Tragic Kingdom. Still think it’s a great album. And then, what, Linus Morissette was close to that.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (37:01.09)
What about you? What was your first CD?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (37:07.884)
Nice.

Thom Skarzynski (37:16.183)
I think I heard somewhere that she was like the best selling, her album was the best selling album of the 90s and it came out in 95, which is interesting. I’d have to fact check that if that’s true, but I mean, that album has so many jams on it. And then.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (37:30.926)
Yeah, I think that’s actually right. I think that it’s one of the best selling albums of all time. Definitely female rock albums, but I think that in terms of overall global sales, it’s top 100. It’s up there.

Thom Skarzynski (37:38.5)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (37:45.039)
Yeah, like I, somebody at some point had told me that that was the best selling album of the 90s. And it was interesting because it came out in 95. So like other albums had five years on it. I never fact-tracked it to be true. But…

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (37:56.514)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (38:04.911)
Yeah, I just loved it. mean, there was just something about it. And then I got like the Prodigy and, you know, was into, you know, whatever was on MTV, we got really into Our Lady Peace and Canadian. I mean, they tragically hip and I mean, got my brother and I got really into Canadian music. And then.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (38:11.441)
yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (38:18.499)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (38:27.649)
Yeah, I don’t know. It’s so funny though, because like old school hip hop I missed out on. And then I was working at Epic. This is probably like 15 years ago, maybe a little less. And LA Reid was running the company at the time. And he walks into my office with this man and he said, know, Q-tip, meet Tom. He’s your new product manager. And I shake his hand and, you know, somebody’s like, my God, a tribe called Quest? Like, you know, whatever. And I’m like, shit.

I don’t know any of their music, you know? And now it’s like classic to me. It’s so good. But I was terrified. He was going to be like, what’s your favorite album or what’s your favorite song? I couldn’t name one song, if you ask me at the time. And I was just like, you know, not starstruck because I didn’t know this man. And I’m just saying, you know, all the things he wanted to hear. But it was awesome being a part of that final album they put out. you know, Fife had his real vocals in it.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (39:11.981)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (39:27.491)
You know, I didn’t understand how important it was until I was invited to go to Fife’s funeral and you see Miss Lauren Hill showing up and you know, like all of these huge, huge celebrities and you’re like, my God, like, you know, what they did to music and now I’m, you know, crazy about them. But it is funny, I did miss like a whole generation of hip hop. Like I probably had Tupac’s greatest hits.

and Notorious B.I.G.’s greatest hits. I was big into greatest hits albums, but Puff Daddy and the Family, come on, everybody had it. But, you know, whatever you think of him, everybody had the album. Yeah, I’ll never forget like that terrifying feeling of like, I don’t know what I’m gonna do if he asks what my favorite anything is about him. Like, I don’t know this man in my office. You know, it was pretty funny.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (39:56.621)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (40:18.915)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (40:25.398)
You you said something really cool there in the sense that you are the example of the comment you made earlier about the release date is when people disagree you, right? Like, cause there’s so many things that I discovered super late or that I’m still discovering or haven’t discovered. And it doesn’t mean it’s not good. And it doesn’t mean I’m not going to like it. It’s just because there’s so much content out there. I get

Thom Skarzynski (40:34.925)
Yes! Yes!

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (40:48.526)
300 to 400, sometimes 500 emails, pitches, press releases a day running this magazine. And the amount of times that I put in the artist’s name on Spotify and I’m like, they have 6 million followers or I go to their IG and it’s like 2 million. I’m like, I don’t even know this person’s name. How are they so big? If you’re releasing music or art, art or content or whatever, don’t be upset if people don’t know it because sometimes it takes a lot of time.

Thom Skarzynski (40:55.353)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (41:08.012)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (41:16.663)
Yeah. my God, especially with streaming. mean, streaming has turned into a really passive thing that like, you know, people put it on in the background, people work while it’s on. it’s hard to, it’s not like CD culture where you’d put it on and listen from start to finish. Like now it’s, it’s not background noise, but you know, like in the car, yes, it’s very active, but like.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (41:36.558)
.

Thom Skarzynski (41:43.095)
You know, it’s strange the way that people consume music now. And again, you ride the wave. And another thing that someone told me a long time ago, but it’s like, meet the fan where they are, right? Like I can say, this isn’t right. Like, you know, they should be doing this. Like this is the way music is consumed. But you know what? It’s not.

Like, meet the fan where they are. If they’re, you know, when TikTok was huge and breaking songs and, you know, we found that fans were only listening to 20 second clips of our music. Okay, well, let’s figure out a way to like make that a thing because that’s where they are and that’s all they care about. So like, okay, you know, like if they don’t want a whole song, okay, let’s figure it out, you know, like.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (42:21.176)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (42:30.701)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (42:32.331)
And it wasn’t great for music and I’m glad that it kind of passed. of course it still has, it’s very big relevance, but at least, you know, people are discovering things in different ways. But when you go to a live show, that’s when you really see fandom and you see people buying merch and, you know, people like, I mean…

You know, they had to buy a ticket. had to get a babysitter. They had to, you know, find a ride there at a parking spot. They got dinner beforehand. Like people going to a show, it’s it’s in a like it’s a commitment. And for me, that’s the also the first question I ask, like when I take on a project and people are like, what do think you can sell? It’s like, well, tell me about the touring business. Like what, you know, how many tickets did they sell on their last run? Because that’s a good indicator.

of people that will spend money on the right thing if you’re offering it to them and they’re aware of it. And you know, it’s true.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (43:31.853)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (43:35.233)
And the other thing I’ll say about that six million is like, that six million could be people that listen to the old stuff, but getting people to pay attention to your new stuff is so hard. Like I’m a huge fan of name any band. I don’t care about their new music. Anytime a band says we’re going to play a new song live, everybody in their head groans a little bit. It’s like, don’t like just play the hits, you know, like I just.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (43:57.974)
you

Thom Skarzynski (44:02.189)
You know, I don’t want to hear the new song. I mean, some people maybe love it, but it’s hard. Like, I can be a huge fan of, you know, ex artists, but maybe not their new stuff. Maybe I’m not ready to check out their new stuff. I don’t know all the lyrics to their new stuff. Like, so it’s tough. It’s tough to, you know, get people engaged, you know?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (44:14.786)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (44:25.772)
Yeah, mean, nostalgia play is so important, but I think you’re right. think it’s like performance and physical are so key. And those are both physical things, right? Like a performance you can feel and see and take home and it’s a memory. know, a CD you might not have forever, but you remember what it felt like going through it, smelling the store. They’re both so sensory and so important and streaming as much as I value streaming.

Thom Skarzynski (44:42.382)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (44:50.028)
I want your take on this because I have my opinion. I think this is a cool discussion for artists out there, for people that are trying to like sell music, pedal music. So I’ve chatted with, I don’t know, 70 ish guests so far. And luckily I’ve had quite a few industry people. I just spoke with Jedward Keys from Bandcamp. And then last year I spoke with Tim Kirk from Zedge. And both of the guys were talking about this

Thom Skarzynski (45:09.719)
Yes.

Thom Skarzynski (45:15.854)
Nice.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (45:20.27)
concept of streaming is not the solution. It’s just marketing to get people to something else. And in those conversations, we talked about this idea of like physical first, or if you’re an artist who, and there’s millions of them out there who don’t have a fan base or who are trying to grow or that are aspiring, consider putting

your full album out physically or on Bandcamp to generate revenue for those diehards and then drip release over six months to a year the album and leverage that as marketing back to the pain what what do you think?

Thom Skarzynski (45:52.685)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (45:57.583)
I think that’s a great idea. mean, honestly, when I worked with the band, A Day to Remember, we did that. We did physical first. They announced it. They said you can order it online. It will it’ll ship right away. We coordinated with stores. So it came out right away. We still did a proper, you know, DSP, Spotify, Apple music route, you know, song here, song there, full album a month later, whatever for the like very casual fan. But for the big fans,

Like, you can go get it. And it’s funny, because the comments were like, you know, I haven’t listened to a CD in my car in forever. This is awesome. you know, it was like very, very positive. And I feel like it was a cool experiment. mean.

when you look at the charts, like rock just does not stream super well or can’t keep up with, you know, the pop and the hip hop stuff. And you think about like, what is it? 1500 streams equals one album equivalent. And one person can’t do that. But one vinyl buy is or CD buy is a one to one. like, you know, if you want to play a chart thing, and that’s what what I really focus on is like, it’s not all about the chart, but like you got to focus on your

your web store, you gotta optimize it, you gotta like create items that fans feel good about buying. You don’t want anyone feeling like, my God, I just wasted so much on this store. You want people to be like, I can’t wait for this to show up, this is so cool. And like, there’s an art to that. And like, that’s what I, you know, when I first meet with artists, that’s what I preach is like, even as a fan, you wanna feel good about.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (47:25.825)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (47:37.519)
Checking out right like there’s nothing worse than one that says do you want to have this your cart? And you’re like, yeah, I guess I should and then you’re like, oh my god $86 this sucks, but okay, whatever I’ll pay it like you don’t want people to leave your web store feeling bad and by the way like as much as as much as like You know you can push it No bands web store or very few is a destination Amazon is a destination, know like going to the web store

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (47:44.824)
Mm-hmm.

Thom Skarzynski (48:07.653)
Takes an active, you know, someone needs to seek it out or press click on an ad or something to get there And then they need to choose their size and then they need to choose, you know to check out and choose shipping and all this and I I had heard that like the abandoned cart rates are like something in the 70 percentile and that’s 70 I think it was like 76 percent don’t quote me on it but like that’s 76 percent of people that got to the very end and then either

got distracted or decided that shipping was too expensive or that they shouldn’t do it or whatever and they bailed on it and yes you know they they get a message I’m sure you’ve gotten it too like hey you still have stuff in your cart like you know do you want to check out and like you know so many times I get it I’m like no no I’m over that like I was a student I shouldn’t have you know but it when you think about like just

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (48:52.846)
Mm-hmm.

Thom Skarzynski (49:03.787)
Like it’s all about optimization. When people are on your store, if they hit a roadblock, they’re not going back and searching for what they want. They’re clicking out of it and going to do something else. Like there’s a million reasons why they should leave your store. So like to keep them on it, just keep it optimized and keep it interesting. Like offer items that are, are clever and, and speaks to the album. And you know, I’m a big pusher of zines.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (49:14.968)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (49:24.813)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (49:32.621)
You know, some of my favorite projects have been things that have come with like books and you know, you can put a CD in there so it’s chart eligible and you know, we’ve done really well with that but at the same time it depends on the artist, you know, like, you know, for…

One artist we did when you open the vinyl it was a pop-up book and it was beautiful and it wasn’t that expensive to make either like things with paper are You know relatively inexpensive. We didn’t have to charge that much and you got a beautiful piece of art out of it. So like

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (50:05.837)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (50:06.657)
Yeah, it’s the experience for me. Like sell, if someone is willing to go to your store, like make it worth their time. Cause they’re dying to click that X to get out of your store and to go on to YouTube or go on to anything else, right? Like something more interesting than your store, which is static, right? Your store isn’t showing stories of your friends and what they’re doing.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (50:17.858)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (50:31.619)
You know, they either like it or they don’t. And if they like it, you need the impulse buy. You know what I’m saying?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (50:37.154)
Definitely. I mean, I think to that point too, it’s why it’s so important for artists.

big and small to have stuff at their shows to be at those merch tables because you can’t abandon a cart if you’re talking to the musician or if you’re standing there holding it. Like the transaction level is so much higher and the impulse bias is so much higher. So have physical, you know, whenever you can in person. You mentioned charts a couple of times and then you mentioned like just now with the zine, the CD is like, you you can add that to the chart. Can you give me like a short summary

Thom Skarzynski (50:50.702)
Yep.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (51:11.45)
what you mean about like charts and charting and why it’s important for artists?

Thom Skarzynski (51:15.585)
Yeah, sure. mean, especially in the US. Well, I guess globally, but like, you know, your chart debut for some artists is a big deal. So like the rule with Billboard is that it has to contain a piece of music and it has to have like a specific slot for it. It can’t just be thrown in there. And

You know, their new rules is it can’t be bundled with any pieces of merch or anything. What K-Pop has been doing forever is like paper items, trading cards, and you know, like cool, cool, like, yeah, I don’t know, postcards, things like that that they put in there that are relatively inexpensive, and then they make the box something collectible. mean, I don’t have it now, but Tyler the Creator’s great at making his…

you know, his merch boxes collectible where you actually want to keep those too. But yeah, I mean, it is a game, you know, mean, creating items and, you know, making them cool, but slipping a CD in the back so it also counts is kind of a nice add on. So, you know, I worked with an artist that, you know, I love very, very much. you know, they had their first number one in over a decade and sold 200,000 units

first week, but 170 came from physical units and only 30 came from streaming because rock just doesn’t stream as well. And it’s like, you know, it just shows that like.

You know, you put the right products out there and you reach your fans and you actually show that you care about your fans, which this artist does and like, they’ll pay it forward. Like they’re interested. They want to be an active fan, but you have to give them a reason to be excited about it, you know?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (53:08.238)
I love this concept of the CD being slipped in because anyone could print a zine or like use Canva to come up with like a comic book layout or do something fun. How do you slip it in? How does it get counted towards charts? How does that in the artist do that?

Thom Skarzynski (53:22.895)
I have an example. This was something we made for an artist two albums ago, but the very first page has a CD slot in it. And then the rest of the book is just…

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (53:35.021)
Yep.

Thom Skarzynski (53:37.967)
you know, it’s, I don’t know, 40 pages of, of, of stuff. mean, this is, it was super, super cool. It was beautiful. The spine was beautiful. It was a foil printed, but yep, first page CD. has a special slot for the CD. That’s all it takes. You do it as part of the spine. I mean, any manufacturer is used to doing it at this point. I’ve seen some do it at the back of the spine, but straight at the very beginning and

It doesn’t ruin the experience at all. mean, it’s just actually, mean, it kind of like makes it heavier grounded. Like, you know, I’m super proud of some of the zines that we’ve made. you know, I think you can probably tell what, you know, I’ve tried my best not to name artists while we’ve been on the call because, you know, I want to give the credit to them and, you know, their teams and, you know, I worked for major labels for a long time and there was a

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (54:31.854)
100%.

Thom Skarzynski (54:34.531)
big team around us that did a lot of stuff. like when I show something like that, yes, I worked with the manufacturer, but so did management, know, and so did the band and so did, like, there were so many people involved, their designer, I mean, my God, like, you know, stayed up overnight and all this stuff. I try to not bring up artists when I can because it’s so collaborative and I hate.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (54:37.869)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (55:00.143)
when people are like, yeah, I did this for this artist. It’s like the team behind who actually did that is humongous and maybe you did, but like, I don’t know. I’m just, I’m a big fan of, I’ve learned to not use names. Early on in early articles, I use artists names and I didn’t want to be defined by that anymore.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (55:24.077)
Yeah.

Well, you’re staying humble and you’re showing gratitude for being a part of the project, but also paying like, know.

Thom Skarzynski (55:30.477)
I’ll say growth on that one. I felt bad about it. I really, I really felt bad because the first article that came out started with their name and it was like…

It wasn’t an article about them, but you know what? It looked like I was using them as an anchor. And this is a band and management that I really respected a lot. like I, I mean, I have a tattoo of my favorite band is 21 Pilots. I also have a Coldplay tattoo, don’t panic, but I got to work them for their last album cycle a little bit. love them. But yeah, mean, listen, it just, so much is done behind the scenes that

For one person to take credit just drives me nuts.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (56:14.796)
I you. want to talk, speaking of bands, you you mentioned Our Lady Peace. I want to get into that, into the Happiness Company. first, well, hold on, hold on. But firstly, so for artists that are listening, that CD that’s put into that amazing pack that you did, how does that count towards the chart? How do they track it? How do they ensure that if they ship 100 of those, that it’s actually flagged, captured?

Thom Skarzynski (56:21.544)
As a Canadian, yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (56:42.863)
I it has a UPC attached to it. It has to be shrink wrapped. That’s like the one thing that Billboard does. And yeah, it just counts as a CD, honestly, like for anyone listening, like, you know, I’ve made a few of these books and it just counts as long as it has a CD in it. mean, hold on, I have another one that I can show you. mean, here’s one that I did not work on, but check this out. This looks like a vinyl, right? Look at the back.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (57:06.414)
How are you?

Thom Skarzynski (57:12.367)
It’s just a CD in there. Like it looks like a vinyl. People will showcase it like a vinyl, but it’s just a CD. Like there are so many ways to incorporate CDs and the final one I’ll show. This one has a vinyl in it. It’s absolutely gorgeous. It’s again, 21 Pilots. I have so much from them because just they’re my favorite band, but you know, this was the 10 year anniversary of their Blurryface album. And on the inside there’s, you know, photos of the guys.

that have never been seen and all this kind of stuff. And then there’s a vinyl that used to be tucked in right at the end here that you barely noticed. But like if you wanted it, it was there. I don’t think it had any changes to it. Maybe it was remastered. I don’t remember. But it’s, you know, but it’s a beautiful item. And that was the thing, too, is like.

Let’s not ever create something that’s not quality and not beautiful. There are artists out there that like you buy a t-shirt from them, don’t you dare wash it because it’ll disappear. It’s all about creating great things.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (58:07.276)
Or leave.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (58:15.521)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (58:19.822)
quality. So I’m an indie artist. No one knows me. I’m not signed and I just paid money to have a hundred CDs printed. How do I make sure that those hundred CDs are actually tracked and can end up being qualified for Billboard charts?

Thom Skarzynski (58:35.887)
I believe if you go to Lumine who runs the billboard charts, they have a way that you can sign up and they can track your UPCs. I’m not entirely sure of it and also like it might, you know, there’s different distribution things that you can go through. I’m not totally sure on that side of it. Like I’ve never done the ANR or ANR admin side, so I’m not totally qualified for that one.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (59:04.59)
It’s all good, but it sounds like that it definitely has to do with the UPCs and then like making sure you’re tracking all the units. Yeah. So no one.

Thom Skarzynski (59:08.665)
Definitely. I’ve been told it’s easy, but I don’t know. I’ve never done it myself.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (59:15.734)
I just don’t want people gaming the system. I burned, you know, 3000 CDs. What are you talking about?

Thom Skarzynski (59:18.145)
did you freeze?

you did freeze.

There you go, I can see you now.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (59:26.734)
That’s okay, it happens. I’ll just cut it out. Before we talk about, I want to kind of wrap with your company, obviously, and the cool stuff that you’re doing there. Your trajectory is so crazy. mean, you started with Roadrunner. I’m a big fan of Roadrunner. I’ve got some friends in the industry that started there. People that were at Roadrunner that are now independent as well.

Shout out to Amy Cerreto, Adam Splitter PR. You know, as funny as I have a funny Amy story. So Amy worked at Roadrunner and then one of my good friends, Dean Pogue, worked at Roadrunner Records in Canada. So we were like on a boys trip in Spain one year and it was, I don’t know, there was four of us. We ended up in Barcelona and we were just.

Thom Skarzynski (59:57.119)
I love Amy. I still talk to her all the time.

Thom Skarzynski (01:00:08.74)
yeah, I remember Dean.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:00:21.39)
flying by the seat of our pants, no agenda. We want to see a couple items. And then one day, we got a couple days left on this trip, and we found out that Atreyu was playing at some venue, Barcelona. And we were like, Atreyu, Atreyu, oh, Amy’s got Atreyu. So we emailed Amy from Spain, and then three hours later, we’re on the guest list to the show in Barcelona. And we had so much fun. It was such a good night. But that’s the point of the industry.

Thom Skarzynski (01:00:32.685)
Mr. AU, I forgot about them.

Thom Skarzynski (01:00:43.875)
Ha ha ha.

Thom Skarzynski (01:00:48.297)
That thing was awesome and I forgot about them.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:00:52.226)
That’s the point of the industry is you develop good relationships and then you are just like a die-hard music junkie and people know that.

Thom Skarzynski (01:00:59.683)
Totally. And by the way, everybody comes back around. Like Amy, you probably know from 20 years ago, Amy’s been like crushing it forever. You know, I knew her from when I, the first day I started at Roadrunner, you know, like it’s, that’s part of the be nice thing and, you know, be genuine and all that stuff that, that, you know, sometimes people have to work on it, but everybody comes back around. Like Amy.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:01:09.004)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (01:01:27.855)
is repping every artist in the world right now. You know, her roster’s insane. I don’t know how she sleeps, but yeah, she’s killer.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:01:31.17)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:01:35.886)
I don’t think she does. So you got, you know, Roadrunner fueled by ramen, Spotify. my God, not Atlantic. Sorry. was an Atlantic music group.

Thom Skarzynski (01:01:49.775)
At Epic then, I went to Epic and that was the LA re days of Epic. So I spent a couple of years there, but then they moved to Los Angeles. So I ended my contract there and that’s when I went to Spotify. And I went to Spotify at an interesting time because like Taylor Swift had pulled our music from the platform. Hip hop artists were giving exclusives to Apple Music.

We were brought in, we were a small team called Artist Marketing and there was just three of us, three or four, I think it started with just three of us that were brought in just for artist sentiment, like, you know, to stop the exclusives from going places. you know, now you see it everywhere, but like the billboard thing, like was definitely started by my boss at the time, Dave Rocco. He was like, we’ll give you a billboard in Times Square if you, you know.

You know, just we just want parody. We don’t want exclusive. We just want parody. And the billboard became a thing. And now everybody has a billboard in Times Square. But yeah, artist sentiment was a thing. And we got Taylor back on the platform after a while. And, you know, it was like when artists came in, treating them well and listening to them. And, you know, it was a tech company. It is a tech company, you know, and there would be people sitting in their room typing on their laptop and

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:02:49.855)
Mm.

Thom Skarzynski (01:03:14.445)
You know, Dave taught me a lot about, you know, just, you know, he was almost like an artist therapist, you know, he like would ask questions that would really resonate with them and also show that he paid attention. So that was a fun couple of years. Then I went to Epic again, moved out to LA and I ran sales there, which I never knew how to run sales, but you know, I was told that.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:03:39.726)
You’re good.

Thom Skarzynski (01:03:41.581)
you know, I would figure it out. So I did that for five years and then left there and went to Electra and then Atlantic and now I’m doing happiness. At Electra and Atlantic, was a dual marketing slash sales role. So, you know, I had a small roster of marketing and then it was adding on revenue whenever I could.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:03:59.789)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:04:07.886)
I wanted to pay homage to your past just because you’ve been in the industry for so long. A lot of people can say that, but you’ve been through so many different majors, some indies, and different roles and whatnot. And I think, was it at Epic that you had a team and you basically reorganized things and changed things, how things worked, and essentially started to bring more happiness and flow to the team? Is that accurate?

Thom Skarzynski (01:04:31.567)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, when I inherited the team, yeah, there was definitely like some changes that had to be made and even just the overall like, you know, the vibe of it, like it just, we wanted to change it around. I have a very, I don’t know, unique personality. I’m a bit upbeat and I wanted that feeling from us and I didn’t want like, you know, I didn’t want people to, I don’t know, be afraid to speak up in meetings or.

You know, to not get the ownership for their stuff. So yeah, I mean, it was the first time in my life that I’ve I had to, you know, let people go and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, we reshaped the team and we brought people in and we took people out. And it was it was a definitely a learning experience. And I credit my executive coaches to who, you know, I still have, you know, they’re practically therapists for me at this point. But

Yeah, mean, it’s a whole new job. Like, I was a person used to being in the weeds. And then when you become running a department, it’s a completely different job. You’re in charge of people. You’re no longer in the weeds of things. And it took me a long time to adjust to that. So, yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:05:42.67)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:05:51.448)
Okay, I got a question for you about the industry in general, but first I’ll share a funny anecdote that’s embarrassing that I don’t think I’ve shared publicly before, but you know, fuck it. So, fueled by ramen for years, I thought it was fueled by Raymond and I was like, who’s Raymond? Why is Raymond so important?

Thom Skarzynski (01:06:01.155)
Let’s hear it.

Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (01:06:07.311)
So in my interview with John Janik on that old website, that was the first question I asked him. And yes, that’s why I’m so embarrassed about it is because I was like, who is Raymond and why are you fueled by him? It was so embarrassing. that is that what you just said is the exact reason why I tell nobody about that website.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:06:18.783)
No way.

Thom Skarzynski (01:06:35.961)
For that question alone, that’s the one I remember where he was like, that’s not the name of the company. Like I was just mortified. So it’s really funny that you say that because that’s the reason I will never reveal, you know. I mean, it wasn’t a good website anyway. Like we did a lot of interviews with bands, but they were very boring interviews and I didn’t know what I was doing. I, you know, a recorder, but I mostly wrote from memory. So it was like,

inaccurate. was just, you know, it wasn’t professional, but it was, it was cool.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:07:07.832)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:07:12.472)
Well, I’m happy that I got a little bit more out of it from you. It’s funny. I remember the day when I realized that’s ramen. don’t think I’ve ever actually, at that point in my life, I had never actually spelt ramen or used it in a sentence. So it didn’t come through. But I was like, that makes more sense now.

Thom Skarzynski (01:07:26.657)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (01:07:30.904)
Yeah, totally.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:07:32.544)
So my industry question, I have met so many really awesome people throughout my career. I’ve met amazing people with this podcast, yourself included. There are so many good people within the industry, but there are also so many bad actors. There are people that are like, you know, behind your back, they start talking smack. There are people that are just there because they want to be like, you know, cool and part of the scene. Try hard. Then you get also like a lot of people that are just there to

money and power and screw the artist and screw everything. In your opinion, what’s the percentage of like true music fans, good people versus not?

Thom Skarzynski (01:08:15.531)
I think a lot of the bad actors and the bad people have been weeded out. think that I really do believe that it’s changed for the better. Yeah, mean, in the past I’ve worked for people that I’ve been afraid of, and that was old school music industry. And nowadays, I think it’s just…

It’s a little more relaxed. It’s kind of what music should be when an artist comes into the office. It shouldn’t be everybody kind of scared and, you know, working at their computer. I will say the balance is probably a lot more good people. mean…

Yeah, I have nothing, I have no ill will towards anybody, know, even the people from my last position, like, you know, when I left, I mean, I absolutely love them and, you know, I just, I wish the best to Atlantic and all that. Like, my skillset wasn’t a fit for them, but that’s totally fine. Like, they had their agenda and like, there’s no hard feelings, you know, it’s…

I learned a long time ago just to not take everything personal and sometimes things really are just business decisions. So, I don’t know. I’m sure there’s bad actors out there and especially in like the management side and all that. There’s stuff that’s like, that gets frustrating, but I think for the most part, it gets weeded out. People know, we talk, everybody talks.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:09:34.381)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:09:54.914)
Yeah, Good begets good. I’m a big believer. And then you want to work with people that are making your life easier or better, not frustrating or shitty. Awesome. I’m happy to do that. Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (01:10:03.522)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (01:10:07.757)
Yeah, and everybody talks, you know, like we all, we all know who, you know, who’s what and who, who’s worth talking to and working with and who’s not and all that kind of stuff. So it’s, it, yeah, it’s a small industry and it’s a big industry, but, I just, it’s a hard question to answer because I, you know, I made a pact.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:10:26.861)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (01:10:35.917)
a while ago that I no longer harbor any anger ever towards anybody. Like I’m the kind of person that if I am driving and get flipped off, I wonder what I did wrong. Which might be a character flaw, but I feel like anger weighs you down and I try my best not to do that. So that question is really difficult for me because I just, I try to see the best in people whether or not, you know.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:10:54.744)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (01:11:04.417)
I’m right or not, you know, and sometimes it drives my wife crazy. She’s like, you should be angry at this person. It’s like, I can’t, it weighs me down too much. I’m not gonna get the gratification that I want from being angry at this person. you know, so yeah, that was a hard question for me.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:11:22.35)
100%. Listen, no, no, no. Listen, I totally agree with you. And it’s funny. It’s like, I’m bringing up names because like, I’m like you, I want to always give credit to the other person.

Thom Skarzynski (01:11:28.057)
Get out a little bit.

Thom Skarzynski (01:11:36.451)
There you go. Now I can see this. Can you say that again? You cut out for a second.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:11:42.608)
sorry, I was just saying that I bring up names because I hate not giving credit to people. love being able to say like as much as I am, you know, a lived man and I’ve had my experiences and whatnot, a lot of what I know or I’ve learned comes from other sources. And if you know what those sources are, it’s good to share them and give, you know, pay it, pay it forward, pay it backwards, whatever. So it’s funny. I’ve been working with fixed

Thom Skarzynski (01:12:07.695)
You

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:12:12.646)
Fixt for a year and a bit. They are an indie label, amazing group of people and their president, James Rhodes, he’s been doing some guest blogs for us. He was on the podcast as well. And I just reshared this like literally, I think on Saturday.

just close the window. He talks a lot about signal versus noise and he talks about how like, you know, when you’re riding down the road, if there’s noise coming in, you can just do up the window. But then in life, we don’t do that enough. And he has like a framework. He calls it the close the window or the CTW framework, which is just catch it, take control and win back your mental space. And I think that’s what you’re talking to. It’s not about being passive, but it’s about choosing what signal or what noise rather you’re allowing in. And

Thom Skarzynski (01:13:02.851)
Yeah?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:13:03.268)
What’s the point? You the more noise you let in, the less focused on the signal you are. So I’m with you, man. Like, who cares about the guy that flipped you off? I think about it this way. If someone flipped you off and they’re because you didn’t move over, whatever, maybe they’re on the way to the hospital and they’re stressed out and they are taking it all. Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (01:13:08.451)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (01:13:21.101)
Yeah, I don’t know their situation. Maybe I was doing something stupid. Like, I just find that if I became angry at that person, I would get no satisfaction out of doing anything. I could follow them. I could flip them off myself. It would just weigh me down in that moment. And I don’t need that anymore. And, you know, it took a long time, but…

You know, I don’t like to, I really don’t like to fight. I don’t like confrontation. I never have. It’s funny, an executive one time told me when I was younger, he said, you’d make a great executive someday if you just learn to lose your temper more often. And it’s just not me. I mean, I want to just, you know, happy. I want to just work with good people and like, yeah, that’s it.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:14:13.39)
Well, that kind of tees up perfectly where we should probably end off, which is happiness dot marketing. So I got a few questions. One is why the dot?

Thom Skarzynski (01:14:24.175)
You know what? I just really liked it and I think you might know as a Canadian the album by Our Lady Peace, Happiness and the Fish and it’s homage to that. So like me, my brother, my sister all have happiness tattoos. We, I mean the full line is happiness is not a fish that you can catch and it, yeah, it’s…

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:14:34.327)
Of course.

Thom Skarzynski (01:14:51.787)
It’s not the happiest thing, right? I named it at a really low point in my life and I was like, I’m gonna force it, but I know what it stands for and now you know, know, it’s, and even the song, mean, you know, it’s at points a little like inappropriate, but like, it’s just, you know, the line is bored again by happiness, you know, and it’s like,

It meant a lot to me and growing up as an R.Lady Peace fan, mean, one time my brother and I, where did we go? Montreal, we took a bus to Montreal because we couldn’t drive and it was a miserable thing, but it was just to see them like two nights in a row. We were obsessed with that band and it just like…

Yeah, that line has always meant a lot to me. So that’s it. That’s where the dot comes from. It’s a little nod to happiness in the fish.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:15:43.02)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:15:50.84)
Yeah, I mean, I was lucky enough to be deep into music when their first album came out. man, it’s fantastic. Their first two albums just navvied. And then, my god, what’s the second one called?

Thom Skarzynski (01:15:57.529)
So good.

Thom Skarzynski (01:16:05.903)
Was it Clumsy or Superman’s Dad? No, what was it called though? Yeah, was it called Clumsy? I don’t remember.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:16:09.086)
SuperBeds does the track, yeah.

remember I’m gonna have to like look up the discography

Thom Skarzynski (01:16:17.719)
I think it was called Clumsy, but I might be wrong. That’s the one that we got into originally, and then we went into NavVeed after that. But yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:16:27.982)
Clumsy, you’re right. Happiness was the third one.

Thom Skarzynski (01:16:30.871)
Yeah. And then my favorite ever was Spiritual Machines, which is like, favorite ever, ever, ever. I haven’t listened to them in years because I kind of burnt out on them after listening to them so much.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:16:35.377)
really?

Thom Skarzynski (01:16:45.869)
That album was everything. And then I kind of fell off after that a little bit. They got a little mainstream. They started working with Bob Rock. Just wasn’t what I was, it didn’t hit it the right time for me anymore. My brother and sister still love it, but.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:16:51.299)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:16:59.245)
I mean

It goes back to your point about your entry point and what you fell in love with with a certain band is what you want to hear. So when you go see them live or buy merch or whatever it is, you keep focusing on the era that really you attach sentiment to.

Happiness dot marketing. I love it. I think it’s really unique I also feel like you’re by putting the dot or the period on happiness you’re saying like listen We do marketing we do stuff But the most important thing is happiness and I’m getting that from you, you know family man 25 years in the industry you grew up in a Sounds like a good environment good home. And so this is an important part of your life Talk to me about this amazing line

Thom Skarzynski (01:17:27.001)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (01:17:35.043)
Great.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:17:43.444)
where fandom beats algorithms.

Thom Skarzynski (01:17:46.551)
I mean, really comes to like streaming to me is all about awareness, but like fandom is not streaming something a billion times. It’s engaging more. It’s going to the web store. It’s going to the live show. So for me, that’s it. It’s like, yeah, I just feel like, you know.

The algorithm will play what you want to hear. And by the way, when my Spotify algorithm kicks in on a drive…

Hell yeah, it’s awesome. But you know what I skip is every new song and that’s like, it’s a problem. It’s hard to get new music out there. But when a fan hears something and they like it and they engage with it and they start following it on, you know, him or her or them on socials and you know, like there are active steps that you can take and then there are things you can do to create super fans. Like when we, when I was at Feel by Raman the first time,

the person who ran the web store, like when we had an artist in, like Hayley Williams would come in, we’d say, here’s the last 20 people who ordered items off your web store. Can you call them? And she would call and just thank them for ordering things. And that spread more and was better marketing than any ads we could ever run, you know? And you just don’t see a lot of that anymore. You know, it’s very strange because the fanbases talk and like them…

Talking means so much more than the advertising that you’re throwing at them that they’re seeing 20 times. So I don’t know. I really am a firm believer in that. If I hear something I like, I’ll look into it more.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:19:31.117)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:19:39.062)
Yeah, I’m with you. think that that Spotify, like we said, streaming is marketing and gets you into the to the to the band into their ecosystem that you can start to like, you interact with them more, support them more. But this concept of

human to human keeps coming up in recent chats. And I think it’s because we’re getting sick of living through phones and algorithms and filters and social media. And I wanna go to a show and like meet the person or I wanna get something like a flyer that I can take home and be like, cool, what is it? It’s a QR code, but it’s still something physical. I think that’s so important and it’s coming back and indie artists need to realize like, screw the vanity metrics.

Thom Skarzynski (01:20:11.727)
Yeah.

Totally.

Thom Skarzynski (01:20:24.589)
Yeah. Even like the record store listening parties, like you’re all there listening together, you’re sharing a pulse together. It’s bringing the fans together without the artists even having to be there. And it’s celebrating them, you know? And it’s, you know, it’s special. It’s special to get people who have a common interest together and people want to get out of the house and feel something with other people, you know? And, and

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:20:24.846)
Talk to you soon, Ambase.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:20:38.67)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (01:20:53.375)
I don’t know, there’s something about feeling less alone when you’re in a room full of people that, you know, love it. And it’s just, you know, I know that every artist does it now and sometimes it feels like it checks a box, but for some people it means a lot. And especially, you know, those two women I spoke to that it was their first time going into a record store. I hope.

I hope they got the experience. hope it wasn’t packed to the brim and they were able to walk around and look and you know, the smell of it. I can’t keep saying the smell of a record store is so unique. Like it’s, I mean, I guess it’s cardboard. don’t know what our records, you know, like it’s the used records. Let’s face it. It’s the, it’s the like broken down used records that are stinking it up, but it’s, it’s just gorgeous. And I just.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:21:33.581)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:21:38.818)
Hahaha

Thom Skarzynski (01:21:45.923)
I don’t know, I hope that there’s a world where that physical comes back and that’s what I’m betting on. I’ll hear often, listen, I’m all for Suno and all that and have friends and past mentors or people that I love working over there. And it’s fine, but when I hear companies like we’re gonna invest more in AI.

It’s like AI doesn’t increase super fandom and I don’t think it ever can because you need a human touch to do that. And like, I want to invest more in physical myself. So like, I’m going to stay in this lane and if everyone’s going to focus elsewhere, I’m going to be here. And if everyone turns to be where I am, then maybe I’m screwed, right? Maybe I’m out of a job. But for now, I’m happy to be here.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:22:37.554)
I think you’re right and I think there’s a place for all of it. We use a lot of AI in tasking, right? So instead of spending man hours doing things like tasking, AI is amazing. I remember this book that I read in high school, Bartleby the Scrivener. And being a scribe used to be a thing before there was a Xerox machine.

Thom Skarzynski (01:23:00.876)
Yeah!

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:23:01.452)
But taking that person and putting them towards something else, another task that’s better for the bottom line or better for the growth of the company is better used than just having them, you know, copy documents over and over all day long. It has its benefit. But if I were like on the label, concert promotion, whatever venue side of the industry, I would have that physical store as part of everything I do.

Thom Skarzynski (01:23:14.671)
my god, yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (01:23:32.621)
Yeah, I agree.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:23:36.472)
Come back.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:23:46.574)
Tom, you back?

Thom Skarzynski (01:23:48.111)
Yeah, I’m back. I’m sorry about that. I don’t know if it’s me or you or I, it says I have full wifi. I don’t know why it keeps doing that. And I even have like the cellular backup thing there that like, if my wifi was to go out, it goes straight to 5G. I bought one of those, who makes them, those Eero things. I have everything Eero in the house. It speeds up the internet. just like, I’m crazy about it.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:23:56.11)
It might be on my end.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:24:04.75)
It’s all good.

Ahem.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:24:15.34)
Yeah, no worries at all. Like I said, it records from our sources, so we’ll be fine. I was just saying, if I’m on that side of the industry, though, if I were…

Thom Skarzynski (01:24:20.131)
Yeah, I’m sorry.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:24:26.99)
doing anything having to do with performance like live shows, venues, concerts, festivals. I would have a physical component in everything. And I’m not talking about like, you know, the little bit of stuff that the bands bring with them. If I’m a venue, I have a record store or a bookstore or a merch store all in one in that, like a small version of it. Like I’d have like a mini hot topic, for lack of better words, in every venue. And then the artists would be able to come in and just throw their stuff in there on top of that.

Thom Skarzynski (01:24:40.889)
Yeah.

Thom Skarzynski (01:24:51.991)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:24:56.944)
I mean even coffee shops like why not have like like You know these small things in every corner of every shop Maybe I’m giving away too much. Maybe these are ideas I need to do

Thom Skarzynski (01:25:00.761)
Seriously.

Thom Skarzynski (01:25:05.879)
And by the way, like…

No, these are wonderful ideas and honestly, it benefits everybody. The artist, it benefits the shop, there’s foot traffic coming in. There’s no downside to that. It’s up to you. It would take effort, but it’s a great idea.

Yeah, people just want to touch something, feel something. I read an article recently that said that shopping malls are making a comeback because this new generation wants to look and window shop and try things on and all that. For me, online shopping, when that came, I was like, I’m never Christmas shopping again. I hated the going to the mall when it was crowded. But this new generation likes it. And you know what?

that might be good for us, right? Like keep wanting to be physical and you know, I’ll lean into it as much as they’ll lean into it.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:26:09.25)
Yeah, I’m really, really grateful for your time. This was such an entertaining chat for me and hopefully we’ll stay in touch. Do me a favor, I always want you, the guest, to send us off with some words of wisdom for the listeners and viewers out there. Not that we haven’t already had lots of wisdom, but give us a final thought.

Thom Skarzynski (01:26:14.861)
lake-wise.

Thom Skarzynski (01:26:18.915)
I would love that.

Thom Skarzynski (01:26:34.499)
final thought. Do your best to let go of anger in general in life. I know it’s hard. I know it’s really, really easy to stay angry at people and at things and at situations, but do your best to let go of it and you’ll feel a lot lighter throughout the entire day. It might not fix everything, but that…

That changed me and I had no like anger management issues, but you know, I’ve learned to grow and just, yeah, I let go of everything. That’s it