Russ Rankin on Good Riddance, Politics, Sobriety, Creativity & Punk’s Role in Today’s World // #066

heartdea13r Podcast w/ chr1stoph3r g0nda // Episode 66 // Russ Chapin Rankin (Vocalist, Good Riddance)

Episode Summary:

Russ Rankin, vocalist for the punk band Good Riddance, shares insights on politics, art, activism, and personal growth. Discover how music, sports, and spirituality shape his journey and how individuals can make a difference in society.

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Full Episode Transcript:

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (00:00.494)
feel free to not hold back. Do as you see fit. It’s funny, I’ve done about 65 of these now and I’ve talked to so many really cool artists and creatives and I always say the one thing I avoid is politics. Not because I don’t like politics, but because I feel like the world is so politicized right now and for me that’s not how we come together, that’s how we’re getting pushed apart. But of all the people that I’ve

to you so far it’s kind of impossible to avoid politics with you especially with the first single off this upcoming album as soon as I hit play and I heard that intro I was like this is awesome I had no idea about the context of the intro so I looked it up and now I’ve discovered the movie sneakers which I have to watch and then the quote and I saw the clip

and they go into this room and then the guy is like pointing to the above referencing that they’re watching or they’re listening and they go to another room to have a conversation. Where did the idea to use that even come from? Like that specific clip.

Russ Rankin (01:10.179)
I’m always hunting for little tidbits of sound when I watch movies. So there’s lots of things that stick in my head. I’ll be like, ooh, that would be a good sample. And that’s one that I’ve kind of kept in the back pocket for years. There’s a couple other ones that we didn’t get to use. Yeah, I’m always thinking about that. Ever since the first time we started using little samples on our albums, I just

It’s something that I’m always kind of hunting for and I make little mental notes when I hear it.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (01:45.89)
I saw that one and I mean, it’s so apt now given the climate, but you and I are not, we’re similar ages. mid forties. I think you’re early fifties and there’s so much that we’ve already seen and lived through. And I feel like as apt as it is now, man, I go back in my mind to like being a 21 year old in university and 9-11 happening. I’m like, it seems like so much has changed, but yet so much is exactly the same. What, what, what do you feel?

Russ Rankin (02:17.463)
I feel like it’s worse. But I also feel like there’s, like the capability for it to get worse has increased with the concentration of wealth, with late stage capitalism, with a smaller and smaller group of people owning and operating all of the systems of information, at least in my country. there’s a, it’s much, much easier to convince the public of whatever you want.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (02:38.776)
Yeah.

Russ Rankin (02:47.843)
But I also believe that we’re more interconnected than ever. it’s an easier, like it’s a shorter distance to get from where we are to a solution and to find community and to be able to build the kind of society that serves more people, that serves everybody.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (03:08.462)
Yeah, I’m with you. It’s funny, looking at the track list of the upcoming album, it almost reads as pessimistic, but obviously punk is not necessarily about pessimism. It’s about finding hope within the rebellion, within pushing towards something different. Do you feel hopeful for the future?

Russ Rankin (03:33.669)
Macro, if we’re talking macro, I mean, I don’t really, I’m not bullish on the human race. I don’t think I ever have been. Short term, I feel like, at least in my country, the way things have kinda gone down, it can only get better. I feel like there’s a pendulum swing coming, but it’s gonna take a lot. We’ve kinda painted ourselves into a corner.

of these two neoliberal political parties backed by billionaires and you got to choose one or the other. every passing moment, the chasm ideologically between these two parties seems to get smaller and smaller and smaller. And what I do like about what’s going on now is there’s sort of a battle for the heart of the Democratic Party here. And I don’t know how familiar you are with American politics.

Sort of like your labor party, I guess it would be. But there’s a battle for the heart of that. And what’s happening is a bunch of young bucks who probably wouldn’t have been in politics 10 years ago are saying enough is enough and I got to do something. And rejecting the centrism and the neoliberalism and the… Rejecting that whole ideology of the entrenched…

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (04:42.679)
Mm.

Russ Rankin (04:58.137)
base of the Democratic Party, which has gone on for decades, and pushing it to the left. And we’re hearing more more progressive voices. And so that gives me a little bit of hope as a person who’s on the far left of things here. So for the short term, yeah, like we’re all waiting for the midterms and see what happens. And I’m helping out where I can and trying to flip seats and donating little bits of change to…

to Democratic candidates, you and I haven’t voted for a Democrat before this last election since like the 90s. So yeah, I’m agreeing. And so I believe that the Democratic Party completely sold out the American left decades ago, and I was just through with it. But I’m starting to make friends with Democrats again, with these younger progressive people. And so I’m hopeful that that helps get us back to where we need to be.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (05:34.632)
really?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (05:56.652)
Yeah.

It’s tough to know like what’s going to get us back there, but I’m with you about the pendulum swinging and something positive coming. I feel like there’s huge change on the horizon. I mean, there is a planetary alignment happening right now that hasn’t happened for about 250 years. And the U.S. really felt the effects of that with, you the founding of of its country and freedom and whatnot at that time. So I don’t know where it’s going to go. I also

you know see younger people coming up and wanting to like really help and act change but then I go back to that quote from that first song and I’m like at what point do these young hungry people that have good hearts and good intentions fall victim to here’s a hundred million dollars

Russ Rankin (06:44.749)
Yeah, think that’s true. Money is the main obstacle ever since our Supreme Court passed Citizens United. It’s enabled concentrated wealth to dictate our political dialogue here and to set our political landscape. And in a world where there’s so few people that have that much money.

it really, I mean everybody else is on the outside looking in. And so I’m not so worried about these young people going, being tempted by money. I’m worried about them being crushed underneath it. Because all the status quo has to do is go, oh there’s a progressive running for like the Illinois 10th congressional district. We’ll just raise a billion dollars, run some random person and just crush them like a bug.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (07:26.722)
Mmm.

Russ Rankin (07:43.549)
And in an ideal world, money shouldn’t win, ideas should win. And the ideas that are going to lift the most people up. But we don’t live in that world. And so that’s why I’m donating money to people that belong to a party that I completely disavowed decades ago. Because these are the people who are fighting the good fight and are actually close.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (07:52.035)
Yeah.

Russ Rankin (08:13.113)
to realigning the balance of power in Congress, which is sort of like a small first step towards us getting back to being able to run a decent country.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (08:32.366)
I wonder if it’s like money ultimately or power like ego that is the issue because like there’s a long since been an exchange of goods bartering, helping each other. know, maybe money just became co-opted by people that saw an opportunity and from then forward became nefarious. Do you think it’s money or you know the lust for power?

Russ Rankin (08:59.043)
I think that they’re joined at the hip. think that people who have power, who want power, money is the way to get it, and money is the way to keep it. And so if most of our politicians that are supposed to be representing us in Washington are beholden to the largesse of

corporate PACs and the billionaire class, then of course, like whoever pays the piper calls the tune, right? And so those people are unable to enact agendas that are favorable to them, staying where they are, continuing to enrich themselves, line their pockets by having these people who are supposed to represent us now representing the billionaire class.

And it’s really, really frustrating because it shouldn’t be this way. It’s this way because of the Citizens United, which would take a constitutional amendment to overturn. But that would be a big step. Another big step would be something like publicly financed elections to where you get a bunch of people that are running and nobody gets any more money than anybody else. Nobody gets any more air time than anybody else. And everybody is invited to debates.

you know, a, for example, a Canadian leaders debate is going to have like five people. Our debates are all two, even though there’s several parties in this country. So just little tweaks like that to make it more democratic, to level the playing field, to be more transparent about what’s on offer and let the people decide.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (10:32.046)
Mm-hmm.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (10:46.499)
Yeah.

I agree with you. mean, that transparency, authenticity is so integral to any system working. I mean, I don’t think there’s any perfect place. I don’t think there’s anything that’s not impacted right now. In Canada, we’re having all kinds of changes where, you know, there’s stuff happening more more behind closed doors that these public forums can’t be videotaped now. You know, and we do have limits on how much contribution parties can take.

here but it’s still just the illusion of choice in the sense that we have two parties there are other parties but together they all are like you know 1 % of the total vote so who at the end of the day do you have the choice to to vote for it’s whoever is being put in front of you

Russ Rankin (11:37.123)
You do have more than two parties in parliament,

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (11:40.3)
We do, but they’re not impacting any change, and I don’t think that they’ll have the ability. That’s fair. That’s fair.

Russ Rankin (11:44.077)
At least they got a seat. We don’t even have that. I mean, I’m not saying it’s perfect, but like, and to your point, think what’s the problem is my country and the billionaire class and the people in power in my country are coming up with new and exciting ways to defeat democracy. And other countries are taking note. Other people who want the same thing in other countries are going, ooh, let’s do what the United States did. And so like we’re becoming the

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (12:06.563)
and

Russ Rankin (12:13.273)
the testing ground for ways to fuck with people. And it’s not cool. And I’m sure that the entrenched power in Canada, entrenched power in the United Kingdom, they’re all taking notes. They’re all going to school on it and trying the same thing there.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (12:17.709)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (12:27.854)
Hell yeah.

I’m all about conversation. I am a huge believer that at the end of the day, conversation, sharing information, sharing knowledge is what saves us, what gets us somewhere. I work with people that have hugely opposing views to me. I have best friends that have different views on politics, on medicine, on religion, whatever. Like I’m a father raising kids, right? There’s so many different things, but…

we all get along because we discuss and we believe in each other’s choices as an individual and we don’t shame each other for believing things that are different because we also know that our opinions won’t change unless we hear opposing views. Unless someone says, yeah, but you know what, Chris, this might make sense to you, but have you thought of this? And then all of a sudden my perspective will shift slightly. How do you think we better things?

Russ Rankin (13:27.735)
I agree that the discourse is preferable to people yelling at each other and lobbying grenades at each other from their respective dogmatic foxholes. I believe that’s probably a better way to go. That said, I’m pretty sure no one’s going to able to sit me down and convince me that fascism is cool. It’ll never happen.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (13:42.35)
Thank

Russ Rankin (13:55.962)
Big picture, yeah, like it’s better if we talk. It’s better if we find where we can have common ground. But at the same time, there are certain things that I’m just not gonna be able to be convinced of.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (14:09.838)
I agree. There’s certain things that shouldn’t exist within society period. mentioned fascism and any form of totalitarianism, whether it’s fascism or something, some other dictatorship is just not cool. People need to have the ability to for themselves, to choose their own lives.

Where did for you like the punk and rebellion first start? Because I know in your background you’ve got music but there’s also hockey and veganism now. Was there a specific moment in your youth or childhood where you’re like okay I gotta take action?

Russ Rankin (14:48.943)
think that, I mean, my parents were both what we’d call here in the States, Carter Democrats. My parents were both a little on the left side of things. And I was really young, but I can remember Watergate happening and the Vietnam War ending and…

just dinner table discussion between my parents about politics. so it was always a thing that was sort of, it wasn’t a thing that we buried or didn’t talk about at home. Both my parents had pretty strong opinions politically. And so I think that may have been where it first gestated for me, where I was like, this is a thing that we talk about. This is a thing that affects people because of A, B, and C. And then,

For me, was getting into punk rock, being exposed to pretty much right away to the Dead Kennedys, who were a very, very stridently political band of the time. And then being exposed to ideas and information that I wasn’t learning in school. And asking my mom questions about it, like, what’s this mean? What does that mean?

And back then even looking at encyclopedias because there was no internet like doing my own research like what what happened what happened in in a in my lay what happened in with Watergate what happened like where is this kind of gone wrong and As soon as I got into punk rock and hardcore music. I think I just became instantly radicalized to to

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (16:13.709)
No.

Russ Rankin (16:35.407)
thinking of things critically in a way and not just being not being cool with whatever like someone on the news is saying like well that doesn’t sound right to me or or like I read in a magazine that that’s not really the truth or that in this other country where you’re saying these people are terrorists they’re actually not terrorists they’re freedom fighters or like in South America like wow my country’s back in backing

fascist coups in all these countries just so that we can enrich ourselves and that’s not cool, especially when we like to beat our chests so much about how we’re into freedom and all that. just seeing through things, asking more questions and not just being resigned to like, well, they said on the news that this happened so that must be true. I think that’s where it all started was, but I was radicalized.

a couple of times by punk and hardcore music.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (17:37.398)
It’s amazing how much art does that for so many people and how important as result all forms of art are from music to painting, right? They’re the people that see things, feel things, that want to share that. And you got a taste of that from A, conversation at home and B, through the music. I lost my chain of thought. It’s going to come back at some point. yeah.

Going back to your youth, what came first? Was it the sports and the hockey or was it music? How did you become this person who’s also in the world of hockey?

Russ Rankin (18:18.318)
Very strange. Very different worlds. I had never seen hockey. I come from a I live in a little beach town in California. There’s no ice here. Very, very young, watching the 1980 Winter Olympics. Maybe you’ve heard of the Miracle on Ice. It’s a big thing here. And that was my first time seeing hockey. And I was just, I was so.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (18:19.79)
you

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (18:23.949)
Yeah.

Russ Rankin (18:46.468)
just blown away. was like, is fast, it’s violent, it’s colorful, it’s graceful, it’s like all these crazy things together. I just got, started, I just loved it from then. And then it just became a quest of like, where can I watch it? Where can I learn more about it? And being where I live, like it was not, not easy to come by. So it was just through the years, just watching, learning, getting more and more involved, right place, right time, knew some people.

through the intersection of punk and hockey, like…

An NHL player that happened to like my band is kind how I got into being able to have the opportunity to work in hockey. Yeah, so that’s it.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (19:35.288)
That’s awesome. I love when stories are more random than these huge buildups throughout a career. I was going to make a point, this is my sick brain kind of going all over right now. You talked about music and the change and I was thinking about my time in high school and like my big change. So when I was 14, having lived in Toronto, lived a very comfortable, very privileged life.

My parents who are Eastern European moved back to their home country. And obviously myself and my brother moved there as well. And it was at that time that I had my first big awakening because I went from this guy who had only really known Toronto and maybe Florida and Disneyland and some stuff to now I live in Prague and I’m taking the subway or streetcar by myself at 14. I’m playing baseball with a bunch of kids that don’t speak English and I’m going to this international high school that is like teaching me about the Khmer

rouge and all these different topics and your mind starts to open up. And then 9-11 happened when I was early in university and I was like, okay.

maybe a lot of this music that I’ve been listening to, know, your green days, your nine-inch nails, raising as a machine, that these lyrics aren’t just lyrics, but they’re actually story and there’s profundity to what’s being shared. And that for me was my big aha moment and carried forward now. What concerns me being 45 with kids and everyone being attached to these devices all the time is people aren’t being exposed to as much

education in the traditional systems as you and I might have. How are they going to get those same messages, those same historical lessons now? Do you think that maybe music’s even more important than ever because of the ability to hit so many people?

Russ Rankin (21:30.297)
think music can be incredibly powerful, whether it’s lyrics of a band like Rage Against the Machine or just listening to Ornette Coleman or John Coltrane. I think that it’s cleansing and it expands our minds and it forces our brains to reckon with information coming in that isn’t linear a lot of the time. And so…

I do think it’s important, but I also think that, like, I’m just, I just sing in a hardcore band, like, I don’t know, I don’t have no degree that gives me any sort of platform with which to speak on authority more than this person or that person. And so there is some kind of responsibility with that, I think, for bands. But at the same time, like, bands ought to be able to sing about whatever they want and let people see if they like it or not.

I also remember this interview I read with Chuck Dukowski who was a bass player of Black Flag. This person had left to ask him this really long political question, very political, and Dukowski goes, at the end of it he goes, I’m glad you asked me about politics. Since I’m a bass player, I know everything about it.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (22:46.734)
You

Russ Rankin (22:48.386)
So there’s something to be said for that. Like at the end of the day, I can look back and think about bands that radicalized me, bands that forced information into my brain that I had to reckon with. And I’m grateful for that. But I don’t think it was their job. You know what I’m saying? Like I don’t think.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (23:08.142)
Hmm.

Russ Rankin (23:12.028)
I guess what I’m saying is based on what your question was, do bands, do musicians bear the responsibility to educate the youth of tomorrow? I don’t think so. I think it can happen, and like I said, I think it can happen with pointed political lyrics, but it can also happen with experimental sounds and just things that force us to expand our consciousness.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (23:33.911)
Mm-hmm.

Russ Rankin (23:41.7)
But I don’t know, your query I think is super valid today with the bombardment of information and the devices. like I remember when I was a kid, we had these books you could buy, they were called Choose Your Own Adventure. And so, but now you can choose your own like facts and news. So everybody’s more siloed than ever before. When I was a kid,

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (23:57.549)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (24:07.512)
Mm-hmm.

Russ Rankin (24:08.877)
there was like the six o’clock news, the six o’clock news, and everybody saw the same thing. And some of it might have been bogus, but we all were making our own decisions based off this one set of information. Now I can go find whatever I want that backs my view of the world and just keep feeding myself that all day long, even though it may have nothing to do with reality, it becomes real. And I think that’s what’s dangerous.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (24:34.028)
Mm.

Russ Rankin (24:37.685)
is that now we don’t have choose your own adventure books, we have choose your own facts, choose your own news, choose your own world view, and then just continue to feed yourself from a specific silo which reinforces that. I think that’s dangerous.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (24:54.606)
I agree. And I was not at all trying to imply that it’s like the responsibility of the art creator or the artist to educate. If anything, it’s our responsibility to seek that information and find it. I’m more curious if you had like suggestions as to how people can find more, you know.

real information, especially knowing that the majority of the world doesn’t even understand the fact that when they Google something, like you just said now, is tailored to them. I could have six friends Google the exact same thing at the exact same time and we’ll get different results based on our search habits. know, I personally, I love long form conversation. I love seeing the full context rather than micro clips. I like to read. I like to read both modern and classics. I still love music and art and

paintings as much as like you know fail videos but it’s about a balance of that information not one specific source one specific agenda like what do you do do you have any ideas that you could share in terms of how to get qualified info

Russ Rankin (26:03.415)
Well, living in the United States, the easiest one is don’t read any news source that’s from here.

So maybe BBC, maybe Reuters, maybe Al Jazeera, maybe The Guardian. think, yeah, nothing that’s sourced here. That’s the first step. I began, back when I was still on social media, I would post articles a lot of times that I found interesting. And they were all very, very left-specific. And then I started checking them.

There’s a website you can go to called Media Bias Fact Check and you can put in the source you’re sourcing from and it’s going to tell you how do they do on their factual reporting. Are they left, right or center? Are they biased a certain way? And I realized that I was posting things to my social media that were bogus. They were very to the left but they were still bogus and not factual and

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (26:42.83)
Mm-hmm.

Russ Rankin (27:09.195)
And so it’s not just the right that does it, the left does it too. And so it became, I became a person that just runs things through the media bias fact check. If there’s a source, like what are they known for? Who runs them? Who owns it? How do they, what’s their track record on factual reporting? And are they left center or right biased? And then, then it gives you some context to read what you’re gonna read. And so anything that can come up with like,

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (27:23.298)
Mm-hmm.

Russ Rankin (27:39.182)
highly factual reporting history, anything that’s gonna be not so much left or right biased, that would be someplace that I would start. But it’s really, really hard. It’s really hard. I’ve practically given up. I got off social media and I was trying to find a news app to just sort of, so I could know what was going on very generally in the world and be a little bit informed.

It’s really, really hard to find something that is close to neutral, I found.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (28:14.188)
Yeah, one of my best friends and business partners uses that same site and I think one of the keys he said there is like going so far back that you’re asking the question of okay who owns this, who funds this.

It’s so hard to now do what our parents and even we used to do, which was just turn on that news and have like some trust in the source, which is scary because so many people still do that, but they still turn on the thing and they’re like, well, this organization wouldn’t lie to me, but they don’t know how much technology and financial influences happened in the last 20 to 40 years. Scary times.

Russ Rankin (28:58.775)
Yeah, mean, so in the United States, Fox News, which has never even pretended to be an actual news network, is what people call the news now. There’s people who think that is news. And that’s really scary, because people will say these crazy things, and you’re like, what did you just say? Yeah, it was on the news. It was on the news. And that’s rough when you’re dealing with, you’re having to peel back layers and layers and layers of

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (29:20.451)
Yeah.

Russ Rankin (29:29.589)
of dogma and of doctrine and just people are so siloed and just awash in this story that’s coming from a site that they believe to be news because news is in the title of the site. But the site itself has never even pretended to be a news source. It’s an uphill battle. And I think other countries, other places,

maybe don’t have it as bad as we do. Like there are still some countries that still have a semblance of a free press where there’s no agenda, there’s no corporate master pulling the strings. There’s just state-run media and it’s boring and it’s dull, but it’s like, it’s what’s up. They’re not trying to slant it one way the other because they don’t really have an agenda. But those are becoming fewer and far between. I think, yeah, in my country, that horse left the barn long ago.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (30:14.136)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (30:27.298)
I agree with you. That’s one of the reasons why I value like so many people doing long form content and choosing to have interviews and not all of it’s great, not all of it’s perfect, but just the fact that people are taking the time to try to connect and try to dialogue is so valuable. I mean, I have on my forearm here tattoo from one of my kids books of like women who changed the world and the word is part of Johnny was the group of people in Italy who helped to.

really liberate a lot of the country after the fall of fascism there. And, you know, they turned on the press again and they were getting the word out during the fascist regime that regime there like through, you know, underground papers and things like that, what we would call blog now. Yeah, I think it needs to happen more. It’s sad that

the definition of news and reporter has seemed to also change over time. Because now to me, a reporter is just someone who’s regurgitating facts that have been given from some higher up, as opposed to a journalist who’s actually going in to understand the story as best they can. Still might not be perfect, but they’re trying to understand the facts and then relay those to you with no angle, just in its raw form. A long way to go.

Russ Rankin (31:32.023)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (31:46.222)
Talk to me about what you said before we hit recording. You said you were practicing, your voice was a little rough, how do you fit the new songs into the old songs? I’ve never even thought of what a band with your tenure has to endure just to do that alone. I think of you, I think of the green dudes of the world who have 10 records. How do you pick through 250 songs to dilute it down to 15 or 20 for a night?

Russ Rankin (32:16.13)
I think that it’s not easy. I I think about the Ramones or Bad Religion or bands that have way more stuff than us and arguably higher quality stuff than us in mass. luckily, I don’t have to deal with that. bass player does it. He’s taken it on. He’s taken on the responsibility of piecing together set lists for us. And then once the set list is together, we sort of poke at it. And we do things.

now that we probably would have never done, you know, as we were younger, didn’t know anything, we know a little more now. So now it’s questions of like, do we want to put, why do we have two mid-tempo songs next to each other? Let’s intersperse them with faster songs. Or let’s make sure that in each block of music we play in our set, there’s a little bit of flavor from multiple albums. Let’s make sure that when this, if a song ends on F,

that the next song doesn’t start in a key that sounds really bizarre coming out of that. Like, of trying to match those up so they mesh a little bit better. And then it’s splitting the difference between what we want to play and what we think our fans want to hear. Because there’s some songs, every band probably has them. If you don’t play those songs live, they’re coming for you with pitchforks and torches. You gotta play those songs. But also as a band, it’s like, what can we do?

to make things fresh for ourselves. Maybe there’s a song we haven’t played in 15 years that we all like, and let’s just put it in the set so we can play it and have fun. So there’s a lot of things now that go into the conversation of sat-list creation that never used to.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (33:58.796)
balance and composure of all of it for almost like every party involved, not just the fans but you as well and your enjoyment. I was speaking with lead singer of a band called The Good Terms, Brian McShea recently and he was saying that they’re much younger in terms of the band and their overall age but they share things that they take on different responsibilities and one guy you know deals with the social media you just mentioned your bassist takes on this responsibility is that how you guys have stayed together?

Russ Rankin (34:25.846)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (34:28.73)
long that you just divide and conquer. You work together collaboratively.

Russ Rankin (34:34.658)
I think that we organically fell into some roles because we have management now, but that’s a very, very recent development for us. We’ve never had it before. And so there’s a lot of things like that to keep the engine running day in, day out, there’s things that have to be done for bands. And as the main songwriter and 100 % lyric writer,

I’m the man for the job with interviews, I think. I’d be able to answer questions about songs and lyrics a little more succinctly. And so that became my role. And those other guys don’t have to deal with it if they don’t want to. If they’re welcome to, if they want to, if Chuck, our bass player, wants to tackle an interview, he’s welcome to it. But a lot of times, half the questions end up being, yeah, you should ask or ask. Yeah, you should ask or ask. So.

Chuck has taken on a lot of of tour manager stuff where he’s gonna deal with promoters at shows, he’s gonna advance hotel rooms, he’s going to make sure flights get booked if we’re going overseas. Our guitar player Luke is, for a long time, dealt with the finances, the bank account going, stuff like that, ordering merchandise for shows, like how many t-shirts to bring, that’s Luke’s thing.

We all sort of just fell into these roles, these sort of like less glamorous but necessary underpinnings of band life to keep things going. And that’s just sort of been how it’s been rolling for a while.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (36:13.334)
started like off by chatting you know about society and politics and money corrupting you guys seem to have really managed to keep things going in a good way with with you know your original friends original lineup you know to what do you owe that success how do you guys approach this where there isn’t one person that you know lets the ego get out of control or you fight over decision-making how do we basically take your model and apply it to the rest of the world

Russ Rankin (36:47.073)
I think that in 2007 we stopped playing. We stopped being a band for five years. And that might have helped. Because what happened was up until that point, it’s all we had known for so many years. it’s just a, if you’re fortunate enough to be a working band, you get onto this sort of hamster wheel of like record, tour, write, record, tour, write. And

never stopping to look around and be like, this is pretty cool. Look what we get to do. Like for me personally, I became very wrapped up in minutia and like things that didn’t serve me and things that weren’t so great for my mental health as far as being in a band. Competition, how many, wait, this band did this many people at this club and we only did this many? That can’t happen. Just stupid things. And when we had five years away,

I feel like for me the band became very right sized. It was like, yeah, we’re not the greatest band in the world. We’re not the smallest band in the world. We’re just a band, like hundreds of others. And so that was really healthy for me. And so when we began to play again, there was a really renewed perspective for me on our place in things. And to really not make too much of a big deal out of stuff. And to take time to stop and look around and…

engage in some gratitude and some humility. Like, look what we get to do. This is really cool. And I think, and also that’s probably helped our interpersonal relationships within the band as well. Like, we’re all kind of in that place. Like, check it out you guys, look what we get to do. And like, if this show doesn’t sell out, it’s not the end of the world. If this show sells out, it’s great, but it doesn’t mean that we’re gonna win the Grammys. Like, just having some sort of like,

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (38:33.848)
Yeah.

Russ Rankin (38:46.207)
more realistic perspective of our place in things. And then, like I said, being able to drum up amounts of gratitude and humility, like, man, these people are paying money to come out on a Thursday night to watch us play. Like, that’s really cool. Like, that means a lot to us.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (39:02.798)
Yeah, gratitude is a huge part of my life. Now I’m happy to hear you say that. So it’s almost like the space that you guys had from each other until 2012, from 2007, 2012 was like an expansion and allow you to maybe appreciate more what you already were doing and then come back to it in a more positive space.

Russ Rankin (39:24.273)
For me that’s the case. Like the band became right sized. That’s like the best way I can put it. It wasn’t right sized for me before. It was how I defined myself. And to not have it for five years was a very healthy thing for me.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (39:44.623)
I apologize for not knowing the facts, but I mean know that obviously you’ve done a lot of political awareness and that you were vegetarian and that became vegan, but there’s like these footnotes of Buddhism or spirituality to who you are. Are you practicing Buddhist? Talk to me bit more about your faith, your mindset, where it comes from.

Russ Rankin (40:08.075)
I’m not a practicing Buddhist.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (40:09.998)
You

Russ Rankin (40:13.075)
I think that,

Russ Rankin (40:20.001)
Through like being a recovering alcoholic, like through recovery, being able to acquire the rudiments of some kind of spiritual practice is about as close as I’ve gotten. You know, I’m not levitating, I’m not walking on water, I’m very blue collar spiritual practice. But I do think it’s important, and it’s been important for my mental health to have an ability to…

to not try to be the center of the universe, to be other-centered, to be of service to the people around me, yeah, like unencumber myself from the trappings of like self-will, self-centered fear, things like that, to the best of my ability, and just getting a lot more peace of mind as a result. I have friends that…

got really into Eastern philosophy. got friends that were super into Buddhism, have gone on several trips to India, to other places. And I think it’s great. Like, people are friends of mine who have gone searching for, on a spiritual kind of pilgrimage, and have found all kinds of really cool avenues and ways to

not only improve their own state of mind, but to then carry that message to other people and to make it a thing, to make spirituality a cool thing for hardcore kids, because that wasn’t, it sounds lame, it sounds like something hippies would do. So to make it cool and attractive and to bring it into, kind of bring it into the fold and to give kids in hardcore.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (42:06.018)
Yeah.

Russ Rankin (42:15.005)
an opportunity to get a spiritual life, to seek for what’s out there, what’s beyond the right in front of me, I think is a positive thing.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (42:27.754)
I agree. You know, I mean, we don’t know each other outside of this conversation. I know you through your music and lyrics and whatnot. But, you know, punk rock is rebellion. It’s anger. It’s the sex pistols. It’s loud. It’s counterculture. And yet there’s this person who’s very calculated with his responses. He takes the time to think about what he’s going to say. you know, is a vegan. And to what do you owe the calm? Has it always been there? Or are there things that you do to…

stay in the space that you are mentally.

Russ Rankin (43:05.408)
A lot of it I think is just my personality. I’m always told that I’m quiet and serious and stoic and I tell it to myself, I wish that wasn’t the case. Like my bass player, for example, is completely different. Like he’s goofy, he’s funny, he’s gregarious, he’s outgoing, he’s a center of attention and I’m just the opposite. And I don’t know why. Maybe something from…

from childhood, I’ve just always been really thoughtful and quiet and

Yeah, and probably getting into some kind of spiritual practice has probably made it even more that way. But I no longer look at it as a bad thing. used to think people like, everyone thinks that I’m so serious. And I’m like, man, I’m a funny guy. I’ve got a sense of humor, but I just don’t show it. think probably some of that is I’m afraid of what you’re going to think of me. So I best keep my mouth shut, which is…

probably something that I could have opportunities to work on.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (44:14.382)
It’s not a bad thing though. I I think that our individualities, our differences, our quirks, that’s what makes the world so fun and beautiful. It also, if you’re stoic and quiet, and then you have like a really witty comment that no one expects, that like drives that impact home even more. It’s why grunge was so impactful with the quiet, loud, quiet, right? Because it just was the opposite, and then boom, it hit. There was a quote that I guess…

Technically is attributed to the band. It’s just Gandhi be the change you wish to see in the world You know, do you guys all feel that way? Is that is that you is that what? Motivates you day to day and while you’re still doing albums and songs ten years later Or is it like the creative in you that just has to produce is a combination of those things

Russ Rankin (45:07.808)
I can’t speak for the other guys on that. I think for me…

Russ Rankin (45:17.52)
When people talk to me and say like, music got me through this or that or because of your music, I started a Food Not Bombs chapter in my town or I went vegan or I’m politically active in this or that way, to me that’s incredibly humbling and it is because I know how it feels because bands did that for me. And so to be able to be somebody or in a position where I can give something back.

that was freely given to me is really gratifying. And I’ve always kind of been creative. I was in grade school, I was supposed to be an artist. I drew better than all the other kids. I won awards that I wasn’t even trying to win for drawing stuff. And my parents were like, he’s going to be an artist. But I didn’t really dig it. It was just something I did.

And then when music came along and some friends had a band that wanted me to sing, I was like, sure, I’ll try. And something about it really was cool. I found it to be a challenge and exciting. And then I’ve also been a writer. I was a columnist for a long time in Ant Magazine. I’ve written op-eds for multiple different magazines. I’ve got a poetry book that’s out. And so…

And then just last year I started writing screenplays. So I think there’s just, for me, there’s something that I’ve always got to be creating. And now AI will do everything and I won’t have anything to do. But up until this moment, that’s been my story.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (46:58.542)
You

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (47:03.094)
I love it. I’m sure that the sobriety has like something to do with it as well. It’s not the same, but I remember coming out of my most recent marriage, I had like a big reckoning for myself because I had to come to terms with the fact that I had been unfaithful several times.

even though that was something that I was keeping to myself and that I told this person after the relationship had dissolved, I still remember trying to control the narrative and like was worried about who was finding out and she was telling and one of my therapists said like, that’s the ego. You you have to know who you are and appreciate yourself and love yourself and people will make up their minds about you and all you can do is show up every day as the person that you wish to be going forward. And if you knew better at the time, you would have made better decisions.

Talk to me about your experience coming into sobriety. Was it similar to that where it was like this crazy feeling and then you had to let it go?

Russ Rankin (48:08.48)
I mean, when you were talking about your story, I was just thinking about like a great, a wise person once said, what other people think about you is none of your business. And that’s something that is important for me to remember. But like, yeah, sobriety is different for everybody, I think. Like, for a lot of people, it’s like,

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (48:19.598)
Mm-hmm.

Russ Rankin (48:35.966)
It’s like, man, I was a total fuck up and my life was a train wreck and now it’s not and I’m so grateful. So, but for me, through the process of it, I not only was able to stop doing what I was doing before that was wrecking my life, I somehow learned and acquired this new design for living that I believe made me a much more accountable and honest…

person and made me put me in a position to be of much greater service to my fellow man. And so those are things that I didn’t expect to get that I got just from the just from being teachable and listening to people that have been around longer than me. And then and then putting that into practice like faith that that works instead like it’s a great it’s great to like sit around and like talk about how you’re going to change the world but but you got to roll up your sleeves and do it you got your feet got to move you got to take some action. So I think it’s like

having the good thoughts, having the philanthropic thoughts, thinking about things, but then also taking the action. And that goes back to what you were talking about with like punk and hardcore music, I think. have finite ability, you and I and everybody else, to effect change in the world, but we do have an ability. It’s finite, but it’s there. And so what can I do? What can I do today?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (49:42.872)
Yeah.

Russ Rankin (50:03.335)
in my community that will lift somebody up. That will, what can I do to protect those around me who are more at risk than I am? What can I do to make a couple people’s life suck a little bit less? And instead of focusing on this huge overwhelming picture of the world, like, man, it’s all so much, there’s nothing I can do, I’m just a bug, it’s gonna crush me. Being able to focus it down to our communities, our neighborhoods, our immediate social circle.

And how can I be of service to somebody else today?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (50:37.56)
Yeah, it’s funny how it comes back to that Gandhi quote, right, about being the change. It’s not only did you live that and am I living that as much as possible, but it sounds like the roots of punk rock are in that as well. You know, taking something that you feel is not just right and doing the opposite of it so that you can inspire other people to come along for the ride of good.

Russ Rankin (51:02.131)
Yeah, if I want to change something, it’s like, gotta see what I can do first. What can I do? Not wait around for somebody else.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (51:06.626)
Yeah.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (51:10.392)
So one last question and this all comes back just to you know who you are now and there’s so many musicians that look up to you and would love to be in your spot or have some of the

accolades that you do, what do you think is one of the most important things that artists in general need to be doing? And it’s not about success per se, it’s just about getting out the best version of their creativity. What are some of the things that you live and die by every day that you have to do from a mental perspective or a creative perspective?

Russ Rankin (51:55.91)
talking to my therapist about this, like there’s things that I do that I want to get better at and I’m a kind of person that’s like I want to be better at this. Somebody should wave a wand and just make me better at it. Like I don’t want the labor pains, I just want the baby, you know? But like that’s not how it is and so I think that especially like I’ll just take songwriting for example.

When it’s time to write for an album, let’s say, I’ve got an acoustic guitar and I make myself play it for three hours a day, no matter what. Even if nothing comes, even if it’s the last thing I wanna do, I make myself play it. And so I think putting in the time. And it’s hard for somebody like me because there’s some things I do that I’m like,

just somehow I’m really good at it. I fell, I fall into it. Writing, writing, I dropped out of high school, I never graduated. But people ask me to write columns, like that’s kind of weird, but that happened. But things that I’m not automatically super gifted at or don’t seem to come natural, like roll up my sleeves and do the work. And that’s probably the most important thing that I could impart to somebody.

who’s in a band who wants to get better, or maybe who has had some success and has plateaued, is to roll up your sleeves and do the work. Move your feet, take some action. Because what’s cool is I’ll sit down with my guitar and I’m thinking of idea A, and then somehow I get to idea B. And it takes you in whole different direction. But I would have never known that had I not picked up the guitar.

So I think doing the thing, like you’ve heard probably heard like the 10,000 hours thing, that, I think there’s something to that. Like if this is your craft, if this is what you’ve chosen to do, do it. It’s not theoretical, it’s actionable. It’s like you’re doing it. Roll up your sleeves, pick up the thing, do it.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (53:56.248)
and then.

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (54:10.658)
Yeah. It’s so funny that you say that I was watching.

My girlfriend and I have between us have four kids and we were watching Space Jam the other night and they’re asking about the best basketball player in the world. And I said, probably Michael Jordan. Most people would probably say Michael Jordan and they said, why? Why is he the best? Why does he have to still do all these things? And I said, because no matter how many championships he might have won, was still there practicing every day. He was still putting in those extra hours, those extra shots.

And I think you’re right. think that you just have to keep going. I’ve referenced this quote so many times before. I’m a big fan of Tupac and one of his lyrics is that even a genius asks questions. It doesn’t matter how smart you get. Keep asking. Keep seeking more. Because if you do that, you’ll hopefully be able to give back even more.

I’m really grateful for your time, Russ. This has been such an awesome chat. This is the easiest or hardest part of the conversation, which is where I pass the mic to you and I say, okay, final thoughts, final words, give us something to end on.

Russ Rankin (55:25.481)
Wow. There’s no topic?

Chr1stoph3r G0nda (55:30.954)
inspirational advice for the years ahead for the future generations.

Russ Rankin (55:40.031)
Do something every day that will make someone else’s life a little bit better. Again, be the change you want to see in the world. Like, each of us has a finite ability to change the world for the better, but it’s up to us to actually do it.