Reduction in Force Interview: Mike Mills Gets Philosophical

Singer-songwriter Reduction in Force, aka Mike Mills, recently released his debut single/music video, “What’s Next?,” a track channelling the mystery, reflection, rebellion, and urgency of the best of ’80s and ’90s alt-rock.

The video escorts listeners into Reduction in Force’s home studio, full of mix tapes. a Vox amp, a Sony Walkman, a Fender guitar, a turntable, posters from the Fillmore, and life mirrored in photos and memorabilia.

The long players attached to the wall reveal his influences: Depeche Mode, The Smiths, Human League, New Order, and Peter Gabriel’s third. These artists inform his music – the overdriven six-string, the throbbing synths, the relentless rhythmic pulse, and the wonderfully unreadable vocals.

A stuffed rat named Norman is the protagonist of the video. He wanders around the studio, generating order out of chaos and giving life to dreams more than 30 years old. Mike Mills has wanted to make music since forever. Now he’s doing it.

We spoke with Reduction in Force to discover how the video came together and the inspiration behind the song.

What’s the question you wish people would ask you when they meet you for the first time?

Reduction in Force: “Are you for real?

“I don’t know when earnestness went out of style. Somehow it got co-opted into the concept of naiveté. Like if you actually meant what you said and said what you meant, that you were some backwoods rube. This is nonsense.

“Understand that I’m not advocating for some reality TV situation where you say whatever you have to to elicit shock. Rather, this is a conviction in putting the best you have to offer forward and an openness to the possibility that you might be wrong. Only when you are earnest do you get responses that actually reflect the best alternative points of view.

“Playing performative games is boring. It is frustrating because not every human interaction should be thought of as a move in a strategic gambit.

“And, yes, I am for real.”

When was the last time you tried something new?

“The better question is, when am I not trying something new? The whole pivot from legal executive to full-time musician earlier this year kicked off a year of reinvention. Every day, I am trying something new.

“Here are some key takeaways from the year:

1. “Dedicating oneself to making music full-time is better than I ever imagined. Music has no bottom. Dig deeper, and you find secret passages you never knew existed.”

2. “I have developed a deep empathy for professional artists (the ones who stick to their guns and do it right). I’m not naive. Nobody ‘deserves an audience.’ However, putting yourself out there every day trying to make it in a deafening sea of noise guarded by an algorithmic gatekeeper that only cares about its own metrics is incredibly daunting and, dare I say, brave.”

3. “The algorithm controls all. We can do everything right, but we still must answer to the real boss, the algorithm. This is especially true as a creative where getting heard is next to impossible in a world full of noise. Once past the algorithm, only then do you get the opportunity to convince real humans.”

Reduction in Force, photo courtesy of Mike Mills

Which one of these is most like you: upholder, obliger, questioner, or rebel?

“I’ve moved from upholder to questioner to rebel. Obliger isn’t generally my thing.

“As a corporate general counsel, ‘upholder’/defender is job number one. You have to use everything at your disposal to protect the company.

“Questioner has always been with me. I’m a ‘why’ guy. Things generally are the way they are for a reason. I love finding what I call the ‘trick’ (i.e., the reason why things are the way they are). This helps you better understand motivations, which in turn helps provide clarity in an otherwise chaotic world.

“Rebel is a new one to me. I’ve just started wearing the leather jacket and working on my Billy Idol sneer. ‘What’s Next?’ is my first creative charge into the breach. I believe that my experience allows me unique insight into how and why things are playing out the way they are.

“AI is fascinating and wonderful, and it is also absolutely terrifying. This is not just another technology. We need to use it very wisely, or else humans are going to lose one of the best things we ever invented: creativity.”

What’s the story behind the name Reduction in Force?

“In the run-up to dedicating myself to being a musician, I had a podcast about falling in love with music. It was called Riffs That Changed The World. I wanted to leverage that name in some way. I thought about the word riff and all of the relevant double entendres. A riff is a hooky guitar lick, a reduction in force (RiF) is a mass layoff, and a rift (similar sound to riff) is a crack or split in something.

“Given that I am a former corporate attorney, I found it poetic to use the term RiF since, in transitioning (a rift) from attorney to musician, I had effectively RiF’ed myself. Plus, I can then use my band name as a verb whenever I come up with a killer guitar riff. Win, Win, Win.”

What inspired your new single/music video, “What’s Next?”

“‘What’s Next?’ is exactly that… the next thing. RiF started when the professional life I’d curated didn’t fit anymore. It was a full and robust life, full of ring chasing and trophy raising.

“With ‘What’s Next?’ I wanted to capture that moment when you realize the old way wasn’t going to work anymore. First, it’s a question.  Then it’s a statement. Ultimately, it becomes the answer.

“Also, it was a test. A test to see if I could write and record something good enough. Good enough that I wanted to listen to it on repeat on a desert island. It’s still playing on repeat in my home. Mission accomplished.”

Who directed the video, and where was it shot?

“I wrote it and directed it, but I worked very closely with my niece, Jordan Dilley, who had some experience with stop motion. It was shot in an extra bedroom in my house. It was perfect because we could use the space like a sound stage and do whatever we wanted to do without having to worry too much about messing things up.

“One of my favourite parts was when I walked out onto the balcony, looking out across the tropical backyard. Unfortunately, it was cut due to timing, but if you watch the lyric video of ‘What’s Next?,’ you’ll see it at the end of that video.  Same look, same vibe, bonus footage.”

Reduction in Force “What’s Next?” single artwork

Which musicians/singers influenced your sound the most?

“I’d say there are two tranches for this answer. The first tranche is the core DNA of post-punk/new wave. Most specifically, Depeche Mode can be found all over my music. They were the first band that was ‘mine.’ I discovered them. I committed to them. And I absorbed everything they created. They showed me the great variety of music from intimate ballads (‘Somebody,’ ‘Home’) to epic anthems (‘Never Let Me Down Again,’ ‘Enjoy The Silence’) to dirty, stomping, electric empowerment (‘Personal Jesus,’ ‘I Feel You’), to everything dark and in between (‘Shout,’ ‘Black Celebration’). The impact they’ve had on my life is incalculable.

“The second tranche is the early 2000s post-punk revival (or, as I like to call it, ‘Post-Post-Punk’). This includes Editors, White Lies, The Killers, Interpol, etc.  What I love about this movement is that it truly was an updated second bite at the apple. I love post-punk, but it always felt like it had maximized what it could be in terms of song structure and sonic execution. Post-punk truly took the first gen and ran with it. It opened up completely new doors and ways of hearing the music I love. In this expansion, it could be more… everything. It could be more anthemic, more dramatic, more stark, and more technically excellent, so long as the ethos came from the core post-punk DNA.”

Name some of your biggest pet peeves.

“Ghosting from folks you know or are close with. It makes me absolutely crazy. The thought that we all have air cover because of the technological demands of modern life is bullshit. Every day happens. Within it, we all have prioritized whatever happened that day. And then the next day happens, and so on.

“It is one thing not to be able to provide the courtesy of a response in a timely manner. It is another not to acknowledge those we know, love, or engage with on a regular basis. If someone falls below the line, say it. If you plan on getting back to someone at some point in the future, say it. Everyone knows this is happening, but what they don’t know is the intention. I can assure you that more pain, angst, and suffering happen as a function of filling in the gaps of intention than almost anything else.

“See… I get worked up just talking about it. Here’s my PSA: DON’T GHOST PEOPLE YOU KNOW AND LOVE!”

If you weren’t a musician or totally in love with your job, you’d be…

“This is where I am about as lucky as anyone can be. Musician, is it? It is absolutely the thing I want to be doing as long as I can do it. This is because I was able to choose it after I was done being a lawyer. On recommendation by Pink Floyd, I ate my meat, and now I get to have my pudding. Know that there are tradeoffs to every journey, but I think I got it right, just so long as I can get a few albums out before AI replaces us all.”

You kick everyone out of the band because you can replace them with any musician you want. Dead or alive, who do you recruit?

“This is my kid in the candy store moment. Given I am the only one in the band, I’ll exercise my prerogative and stay and tear the house down with these greats.

“Tom Smith (Editors) on vocals. I’ve recently gone back and re-listened to all of the Editors’ work. Tom is unreal. To me, it’s the weight to his voice. It commands presence at all times and in every song.

“Anthony Gonzalez (M83), Alan Wilder (Depeche Mode), and Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails) on soundscapes. It would sound lame to say ‘synth.’ What they create are living worlds. I want to crawl into every one of those worlds and create another world inside those with all of the ideas they spawn. My synapses would be firing over time. Bring it.

“St. Vincent (Anne Clark) on everything. I saw an interview where she walked us through her creative process. It was perfect. Everything had an analogue component, a heartbeat. Then she would throw things at it from every angle and rhythmic structure. It was beautiful noise until all of a sudden it was beautiful music. It would be impossible not to write amazing songs using this model.

“Then, of course, The Beatles, David Bowie, and Elvis would stop by from time to time to check in and make sure we were pushing the boundaries far enough. And, you know, laying down some guest vocals.”

Does God exist? Why yes/no/who the fuck cares?

“Now that’s a great conversation starter at parties. Perhaps I’ll make some short-form content on this topic. It would be an interesting way to get more RiF followers or, you know, blow it all up.

“Regardless, for you (and anyone else), it’s kind of irrelevant if I do or don’t believe. Rather, it’s all the trappings that go along with belief. Meaning, does that belief (or lack thereof) cause me to act in certain ways, and how do those ways affect you?

“Being of a ‘seasoned’ vintage as an artist, I am predisposed to philosophical musings. I recently rediscovered Albert Camus. I think he has it right: life has no meaning, but our brain needs one. The tension between the two that ensues is absurd.

“Now, all is not lost. The real question is, what do you do despite this fact? Burn it all down like The Sex Pistols or The Clash? End it all like Kurt, Ian (Curtis), Michael Hutchence, or Elliott Smith? Or keep pushing that rock up the hill with a smile on your face?

“I’m choosing door number three. But to do that, you’d better find some core values you believe in and fast (a conversation for a different time). Without it, you’d just stop pushing, and that rock would just roll back over you.”