Industry Insider: Ever Kipp Talks Artist Development and the Music Business

With years of experience behind him, Ever Kipp has become a well-respected name within media relations and music publicity. He got his start working at the well-regarded New York City publicity firm Big Hassle before migrating to the Seattle indie label Barsuk Records. In his time at both, he has worked with a lengthy list of big clients, including Death Cab for Cutie, Phantogram, Rufus Wainwright, The Libertines, and more. He has also done work for The Bonnaroo Festival. Experiences such as these left him with the impression that every record and artist has a unique story to tell. That’s where his job comes in, helping to craft and contextualize that narrative and share that story.

After working for Big Hassle and Barsuk, Kipp founded Tiny Human, a Seattle-based boutique media relations firm. Their focus is music publicity, designing and implementing custom press campaigns individualized to client needs. From small-scale to large-scale projects, Tiny Human does it all. They focus on evolving along with their artists and ensuring they meet those unique needs. They are selective about the clients they work with because they want to ensure they are doing their utmost to tap into the potential of each client.

Today, we are pleased to have Kipp join us for Industry Insider, in which we discuss his views on artist development, the music industry, success, and more.

Ever Kipp with KYB Band in Seattle, photo courtesy of Ever Kipp

Is it still possible for an artist to develop naturally in today’s climate, or do social media algorithms and data-driven decisions force them to fit a mould too early?

Ever Kipp: “I think it is still possible for an artist to develop naturally in today’s climate. Social media algorithms and data-driven decisions are certainly a part of the overall picture these days. However, let’s look back at the fundamentals. I think it’s important to realize that a lot of the things that have worked historically still work well today. Before the ‘Internet revolution,’ artists grew fan bases locally. That’s where we get the idea of the ‘scene,’ be it D.C. punk, SoCal throttle-rock, Motown, Detroit Techo, etc. The reason proven methodologies are proven is because they work and have worked countless times.

“It may not be sexy to talk about building a regional following. But I don’t think it makes any sense to ignore proven techniques to focus solely on algorithmic drivers. All those old-school marketing techniques still work. We just have more tools in the toolbox these days.”

Do you believe the responsibility for artist development now lies more with the artists themselves, or should labels and managers still play a bigger role in shaping careers?

“Artist development fundamentally lies with the artists themselves. Managers and labels play a very important role in shaping and shepherding careers, but at the end of the day, it should be the artist who is taking consultation from their team and making decisions themselves. They are captains of their own ships; we are just the folks in the engine room making things move forward. Even the biggest artists I’ve worked with in my career, the ones with full teams, are still checking in with their managers daily and running down the list. You cannot take your hands off the wheel just because things are going right.”

Ever Kipp with KYB Band in Seattle, photo courtesy of Ever Kipp

What’s the most overlooked aspect of an artist’s development?

“I think the most overlooked aspect of an artist’s development is really focusing on initial growth. I like to say you don’t build a house from the attic down, you need to start with the foundation. That means pursuing local press and radio, playing smaller venues, and building regionally. It’s an important first step. Don’t worry about trying to tour nationally when you can’t draw a few hundred people in your hometown.

“You need to develop an actual fan base first. All the gears of the marketing clockwork need to turn synchronously. Social media, press, radio, touring, digital marketing… It all has to flow together to really move things forward. There’s not one thing alone that breaks an artist.”

What’s one hard truth about the music industry that no one prepares you for when you first enter it?

“Talent and creativity are really just prerequisites. It’s not enough by itself. Yes, ideally, all that should matter is the music. However, if you want people beyond your friends and family to engage with your art then you are a brand. It’s not selling out to think of things that way. You are the CEO and board of directors of your brand. You have ultimate control over how that brand is shaped and put out into the world. To find success, you need to lean into that concept, which includes developing a cohesive brand identity. If you’re having trouble doing that yourself, there are plenty of people out there who can help (like Tiny Human, *hint hint*) you get that dialled.”

Ever Kipp at Bonnaroo with Roderick, photo courtesy of Ever Kipp

What’s the biggest mistake artists make when they first start building their team (managers, agents, publicists, etc.)?

“There are actually two big mistakes that artists make when they first start building a team.

“The first is to ignore the advice of experts. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve seen artists ignore consensus advice from their teams, leading to suboptimal results. While it is true that you are the ultimate decision-maker, why are you putting together a team if you’re not going to listen to what they have to say? Be open. Collaborate. Everyone on your team is very incentivized to help you succeed. It’s cliche, but a rising tide really does lift all boats. These people want you to be successful because, in turn, it will help their success grow.

“The other biggest mistake is expecting overnight results. When I was at Barsuk Records, I worked with a band called Phantogram. It was wonderful, almost everything went right for them out of the gate. However, it still took almost two years of pushing to book them on late-night TV for the first time. It’s a process.

“I like to talk about public awareness, or the idea of the overnight sensation or an ‘industry plant,’ as akin to an iceberg. You may think a band broke and came out of nowhere and they’re suddenly huge. The surface of the ocean is public awareness. All you can see from the outside is what’s above the water. You don’t see the hours, days, months, and years of grind that has gotten them to that point. Be patient. Anticipate the grind. It is hard. You need to plan strategy out 24, 18, 12, six months. You might get lucky, and you can adjust that plan as new data come in, but always plan for the grind.”

Ever Kipp with Phantogram on Jimmy Kimmel Live, photo courtesy of Ever Kipp

What’s one thing that artists consistently get wrong when it comes to managing their public image?

“Artists need to realize that their public image is more than singles, shows, and records. Certainly, the primary focus of your public image should be on your music. However, you need to be a three-dimensional entity. I like to say that there are at least three audiences to whom an artist needs to market themselves. First, your existing fans: Are you giving them a sense of ownership? Are you giving them the opportunity to engage with you?

“Second: potential fans. Is your public image, for lack of a more eloquent term, interesting? In a world of short attention spans your public image needs to be ‘sticky.’

“Third, the industry: Everyone does their due diligence. Small club or giant festival, little blog or major national publication, they are looking at your socials, your website, reading your copy, etc. Are you consistent? Does your public image convey the size of your fanbase and their level of engagement?”

How has your definition of success changed over the years? Is it still about fame and financial rewards, or have other aspects become more important?

“The first thing I ask any potential client is how they define success. If someone comes to me, and their goal is just to share a few songs they recorded with their friends and maybe play a local show once or twice a year… great. They don’t need me. Go, live your dreams!

“If your goal is to make a living as a musician, I think that’s more attainable than ever in a lot of ways. If you can build up a solid regional fanbase, maybe get to the point where you have a dozen venues you can draw a few hundred people, and do that twice a year? Maybe sell some merch and vinyl? Get a little bit from streaming? Set up a Patreon? You can make a living.”

Ever Kipp with Phantogram on Jimmy Kimmel Live, photo courtesy of Ever Kipp

In retrospect, how much of your success do you attribute to hard work, and how much to being in the right place at the right time? Can artists manufacture their own luck, or is it mostly out of their control?

“Work is the foundation of any successful career. Luck is a part of it, but you can’t count on luck by definition. I was having a discussion with a friend of mine who’s an editor, and we were talking about this very thing. I said that we were pretty lucky to have the careers that we have. He apologized for ‘being such an editor’ and stated that in his opinion we are fortunate rather than lucky. We’ve spent time and energy honing our skill sets. We’ve taken calculated risks and kept pushing forward in the face of adversity. And we’ve gotten a little luck as well. Put those things together. You have to work hard, take risks, be data-driven, and have talent. And a little bit of luck certainly doesn’t hurt.”

Do you think the traditional idea of an ‘album cycle’ is still relevant, or has the way artists release music completely changed?

“I don’t know that I would say the ‘album cycle’ is still incredibly relevant. However, I do think releasing records as cohesive artistic statements is very important. I’ve never had a writer or editor fall in love with an artist because of a single. I have, however, had pretty much unknown artists covered in the likes of The New York Times or NPR because a writer happened to fall in love with their record.”

What role do you think branding plays in an artist’s long-term success?

“Branding plays a major role in artists’ long-term success. The recorded music and live performance are at the core of things, but you need to give your fanbase something more to hold on to. A sense of familiarity and kinship. Get them to buy into your brand. I don’t care if it’s Patagonia with rock climbing and surfing, or if it’s Taylor Swift with sparkly outfits and cats. There’s more to it than just the music. I know sometimes that rubs people the wrong way. That might be hard to hear, but it’s the truth. Lean into it and own it.”