Testament’s Chuck Billy on Classic Album Reissues, Bay Area Memories & His ‘Big Four’

Long before the internet became a thing, there was a long-standing discussion amongst metal fans that, of all the bands who didn’t make The Big Four, Bay Area thrash metal juggernaut Testament was the one band who most deserved a place in the thrash metal elite.

Now, although it’s an argument that shows no signs of fading, neither do the legendary thrashers themselves. For over thirty-five years, Testament has raged both on record and in the pit. A huge draw on all the major metal fests and packing out venues at their own headline shows, the band show no signs of slowing down. An injection of energy in the form of new drummer Chris Dovas and the first in a series of classic reissues shows the Testament machine is still a force to be reckoned with.

Ahead of their return to Europe later this year with Anthrax, V13 sat down with Testament’s legendary frontman Chuck Billy to talk about the reissues, the new generation of Testament fans, his memories of the Bay Area thrash scene and, most importantly, of all, what his views are on the Big Four argument…

Let’s start with the reissues. What prompted that?

Chuck: “I’m not sure everybody knows that, but every band after 35 years you have the opportunity to retain the rights back to your music. Right now we got back The Legacy and The New Order. Right. This month we got back Practice What You Preach and we get back those six records with Atlantic Records.

Next year we’ll get Souls of Black and in a few years after that Ritual. We were a little disappointed with Atlantic. They never really did any reissues or pushed those records after we left them. Once we decided we wanted those records, we contacted them, got the rights back and then took those to Nuclear Blast.

We’re very happy with Nuclear Blast. Everything they’ve done for us has been top notch and that’s the right home for our music. Eventually, they’re going to have Testament’s entire catalogue.

We decided now that we have them let’s go back and remaster them. Since we couldn’t find the original two-inch tapes to remix it, the only thing we could do was remaster. We found two of the raw unmastered versions and took them in and had them remastered, which, as you know, 1987 and 1988 production values compared to now is night and day.

What things sound like in 1987 when we were making those albums, we were making them for vinyl. We were still mixing records two inches and cutting them straight to vinyl and then listening to the test pressing, then having to go back, tweak it, make another vinyl, and listen to it.

They weren’t made for the digital world or CDs per se. So when we mastered things, it got, I want to say over-compressed, because when I hear those records on Sirius Radio or any format like that they just sound so small when I know they’re not. When we got to go in and remaster them, it was just a night and day difference in the sound. All of a sudden things just opened up and they just got big again. This is the way these records should be heard so we decided that instead of just putting it out there as a promotion piece, let’s go out there and perform these records and play them and celebrate them.

So that’s what we did. We just finished our Europe run and that’s all we did was play The Legacy and New Order albums, start to finish.”

What was that like for fans?

Chuck: “It was great because every night I would pose the question to them even these big festivals, ‘put your hands up if this is the first time experiencing Testament.’ quite a few people were putting their hands up and the crowd was very enthusiastic. Well, they’re enjoying it so maybe we’re getting some new fans out there that only have read about the history of the Bay Area thrash movement, but we’re never really got to experience it.

They are getting to hear these classic songs that we wrote thirty-eight years ago, so it was a good feeling and, we were on point, we play those songs better now than we ever have.”

“We decided now that we have them let’s go back and remaster them. Since we couldn’t find the original two-inch tapes to remix it, the only thing we could do was remaster.”

Just going back, it’s interesting what you said about the original recordings. I spoke to Max Cavalera a few months ago on a similar subject about re-recording old Sepultura albums which I guess were released around the same time. They said exactly what you said about production values and the recording conditions and things like that. Going back to that period, what do you remember about recording those two albums?

Chuck: “We were new when I did the Legacy record. I had only been in the studio twice, once to do an EP for Shrapnel Records then I did a three-song demo for The Legacy to give to Johnny Z just to see that we still had a record deal because when I joined the band Steve Souza was the singer who sings for Exodus. He left the band and he had a record deal on the table. I had to prove myself and do another demo. When I went in to do the legacy, I had no experience in the studio. All my faith was in the engineer and Alex to make these records.

What I do remember is the techniques we used back then, which I know we would not use today to make those records. I think it was all about the attitude and energy that we had and we were ready because we spent a good year fine-tuning The Legacy record. Those songs were written and I wrote one song on that record with the guys so we were prepared but it was all new.

We had just got a record deal. We’re young. We just looked up to our heroes thinking, of sex, drugs, rock and roll. Let’s go on the road and hit it and that’s kind of what we did. Looking back, you can’t change history, you can’t change the way they’re recorded, but you can change the way they sound today, which is the only thing we could do with those records.”

If you look back, you talked about the new fans not knowing about the history of the Bay Area but those records defined that whole scene as far as somebody my age is concerned. So, would you want it to be any different?

Chuck: “No, not at all. Now, because we didn’t know any better, we tuned down to D to play those old records so they come across a little heavier. It’s more range. I’m seeing them a little stronger. My voice, when I hear those old records in the tuning, I feel like my voice is way up here, real high, like a kid. We didn’t know any better.

I think now the songs, everybody plays better so it just comes across so different and, the fans that have been there with us back then get a smile on their faces because, like myself, when I still listen to UFO or Thin Lizzy, that takes me back into my high school years and the good times living at mom’s house and having no credit cards and no debt, and just partying along chasing women.

When we play these records and have fans come up who have experienced it, they thank us because it brought them back to like the good old days. They brought their friends or they brought their kids to experience what they experienced. That’s even cooler.”

“That takes me back into my high school years and the good times living at mom’s house and having no credit cards and no debt, and just partying along chasing women.”

Going back to the first two records, what did you learn from those experiences?

Chuck: “I think because when we did our first four records it was tour, write music on the road, make a record, tour, write music on the road, make a record. It happened so fast and there was no time to breathe. Alex was 16 when he made those records and didn’t have a childhood. When he left the band, things just moved too quickly for us and we split up. I think making music and trying to be true to yourself, that’s the path that we stayed on for our whole career… trying not to be anybody else but Testament.

It still stands strong and current today with a lot of fans. We see after shows that the main comment is thank you so much for staying true. I hear that a lot. I think we’re very fortunate, lucky, and I give a lot of props to Eric Peterson because he doesn’t go out and chase and listen and search out other music and what’s going on. He’s stuck in his groove of what he likes and because he does that, he keeps it true to Testament, but he’s always challenged himself to make a better record, make a better production and he’s succeeded at that time. Every time he surprises the hell out of me.”

What do you remember about touring those two records?

Chuck: “A lot of drinking, no sleep, you know, sex, drugs, rock and roll. That was the thing. That’s what we heard it was all about. Looking back, we weren’t a hundred per cent, we were hungover or we played every night of the week. We didn’t take time off. We just played and played and played. We might’ve just burnt ourselves out too quickly, and looking back from now to then it’s a hundred percent about performing now.

Back then it was just about being on the road, being away from home. We’re five guys that never left California. Here we are touring the world and just being crazy maniacs. It was such a new scene, the style of music we’re playing too so we were proud to represent what was coming from the Bay Area at that time.”

Testament live, photo © Annie Atlasmann

There were so many great bands from that area as well who are still around. Exodus and bands like that, still pulling the crowds. Being part of that scene, did it feel special?

Chuck: “Well, we didn’t know it back then, but looking back in hindsight, it was special because the Bay Area’s early eighties and mid-eighties were about hair metal and glam bands and punk rock. That’s what we had a lot of and some cool venues to play. I think once Metallica came up and Exodus was making some noise all those glam and hair bands, they went to Hollywood to pursue that because that’s where it was happening. Once that happened, it opened up all these venues in the Bay Area.

There was a paper called The Tribune or The Chronicle that had a section called the Pink Section, which had all the entertainment. When you opened it up, you’d see all the Keystone Berkeley, The Stone, Ruthie’s Inn, Rock on Broadway. They had all the month or the weekly events and if you look at it, it’s all metal. There were no more hair bands or glam bands. It’s punk rock and metal and I think that was the special thing that the Bay Area had. There were all these newer bands popping up, not copying Metallica or Exodus, but popping up, creating their own identity, following each other and supporting each other.

You could go watch an early show in Berkeley and still catch the later headliner in San Francisco. Then after that show’s over, we’d all end up at the same warehouse studio partying, drinking kegs of beer, or the Metallica house, or Paul Baloff’s house, or the Exodus house. It was a scene that was like a big party, but everybody shared, following and supporting each other back then and, because that’s all we had, we took over the scene in the Bay Area.”

Practice What You Preach was the album where it blew up worldwide for you in terms of a more mainstream audience…

Chuck: “Well I think it was Atlantic Records what really pushed that as well because we were on Megaforce an Independent with Atlantic Distribution but Atlantic took us over at that point and then that was when Atlantic’s big machine with A& R and radio and Warner in Europe helped the push because we were a new identity being pushed by a big machine.”

Did you feel like a different band going into recording that record?

Chuck: “Yeah, because now we have Atlantic Records and a guy calling himself an A&R person. That A& R person would be whispering in our ears, ‘Where’s the radio song? Where’s the single?’ We’re not a band for radio. We’re not a radio band, but that was the guy saying, ‘I need something commercial. I need something that can cross into radio.’

So of course, you know, we give them these ballads and these slower songs that maybe could be on radio. I don’t know if that hurt us necessarily. We got some push, and we sold some records, but it wasn’t who we were so that was the big change from being an independent underground thing coming from an era of no internet, it was all word of mouth and magazines that people picked up and tape trading to now, now you’ve got a major label pushing, trying to get you on the radio and spending a lot of money making videos.”

Testament live, photo © Annie Atlasmann

Looking at that era you had Sony signing bands like Carcass and Morbid Angel. You signed with Atlantic. Shifting forward to nowadays do you think that sort of thing would ever happen again or do you think that those times have passed for metal?

Chuck: “Major labels aren’t a thing anymore. You have to be a special band that they’re going to go and spend that kind of money to make a record and make a video. I mean, those were record budgets were half a million dollars, you know, $300,000 to make a video, bands were digging themselves holes of debt. That doesn’t happen now. With the success of the internet, you can get a fanbase worldwide much easier. You can make beautiful, great videos for $10,000. You can make amazing-sounding records with technology for $30,000, so it’s totally changed where you don’t need those major labels.

When you’re on a major label, there are too many acts so you get lost in the pool of bands. There’s so many records coming out. You can’t get the attention that you need to make a band unless you have a hit song that crosses over and makes some waves. Then all of a sudden the label’s gonna pay attention to that band. They need to focus on them now, they broke the Top 20, the billboards chart, it’s totally different. There are no major labels that I know of that are out looking for bands that don’t have a radio song or a hit or something like that.”

“After that show’s over, we’d all end up at the same warehouse studio partying, drinking kegs of beer, or at the Metallica house, or Paul Baloff’s house, or the Exodus house…”

One of the arguments that has gone on for as long as I can remember, and has blown up again since the arrival of the internet, is that Testament should have been in the Big Four. What is your take on that?

Chuck: “I agree, but when you talk about the Big Four and what they were, those four bands, Slayer, Metallica, Anthrax, and Megadeth, those bands, especially because of the time, were on major labels selling millions of records with bands like Testament, Overkill and all the bands behind that coming up.

We were with a major label, we were slotted in there ready to break and then the climate changed. Grunge came in. The rug got pulled out from everybody and things changed dramatically overnight. So, when they say, should we be in there? No, those four bands should be there. Still to this day, Slayer sells a lot of records. Metallica sells a lot of records. Megadeth sells a lot of records.

Anthrax is the only band that probably fell back to where we are. You know, where we sell just as many records, if not more, and maybe even more live tickets today than they do. That’s my argument now, today is a different thing. So, when you talk today, yeah, there’s a chance Testament could slip in their past Anthrax, but you know, when we talk Big Four, that’s who the big four were.

You’ve talked about the closeness of the Bay Area scene. Back in the day, if you could include in Testament, who would you put in your own Big Four?

Chuck: “Well, the Big Four would have to cross the oceans with bands like Kreator, Testament, Exodus, even Overkill. Some bands came a little further past us, but there are bands, to me, still like Destruction, they’re making a comeback, who were around the time we were coming out, doing very well, but that’s probably the handful of bands that were in the slot. With major labels making some noise coming up, selling records, selling out theatres, and then things changed and shifted, you know?”

That’s a bill that wouldn’t leave many venues standing afterwards though. Even today…

Chuck: “It’s good to see that all those bands I named are still and still have continued carrying the flag, making good music, continuing to sell tickets and entertain fans and didn’t give up. That’s the thing. All these bands that I mentioned still believe in what they do.”

Why do you think you can go to festivals like Bloodstock, Wacken, where bands like Testament, Exodus, Forbidden, that aren’t kind of getting the mainstream coverage, still pulling thousands and thousands and thousands of fans, they’re still selling tickets, they’re still selling records. Is it because, like you said, you’ve stuck to what the band’s about? Why do you think it’s still popular 30 or 40 years later and it’s still pulling in fans?

Chuck: “I think it’s the history. Metallica came from that history and Metallica, is the biggest metal band and not just the biggest band on the planet, I think those fans still are curious about where they came from, where they started and it all leads back to the Bay Area thrash scene. So, there is a handful of those fans I’m sure that still love that style believe in that style, and what they did and love their early material. And they still follow bands like us because it’s still in that vein.

A lot of these bands haven’t tried to shift and play what’s current and what’s happening today and what’s in the mainstream, they’ve all stayed true to what they started at and I think the real metal fans appreciate that, and stick with the bands and support those bands because that’s the payoff. We haven’t changed. We stay true to who we are and, yeah, we’re not selling millions of records, but we’re still creatively writing strong music, like all those bands.

For us, we haven’t stayed in our early years. We’ve always evolved in either the songwriting process and the records that we do or the stage production or whatever we do. We’ve always tried to keep evolving and challenging ourselves and fans still like the fact that we haven’t lost who we are but we’re still creating new feelings of Testament.”

“When they say should we be in there? No, those four bands should be there. Still to this day, Slayer sells a lot of records. Metallica sells a lot of records. Megadeth sells a lot of records.”

That being said, there are songs on those records that are that are staples of any Testament setlist. Songs that I think every Testament fan would be upset if you didn’t play. What’s it like for you now to go out and play those classics?

Chuck: Well, we’ve never done a show where we didn’t play ‘Into The Pit’. Every time in the show where we hit that song, the crowd in the pit just goes nuts. Songs like ‘Over The Wall.’ Same thing. They remember those videos so those ones will never really go away and those are a classic definition of who Testament is for sure but, like on this last tour, we did The Legacy and New Order, which fans got to experience, especially by them raising their hands, letting me know that this is the first time they’ve got to see Testament and now they’re getting to experience it live, the history of it.

Did that surprise you the reaction where people maybe hadn’t seen Testament before?

Chuck: “When I look out and see how young those hands are lifting up I can see they’re young. They weren’t born when we made these records so maybe they don’t know and they’ve only come to like heavy metal maybe over the last 20 years, so maybe we’ve missed them, but they’re here thrashing around into the pit banging their heads.”

What do you hope those fans get out of the reissues and discovering the history of the band?

Chuck: “To buy into what we’re about because I think we’ve always stayed true and it’s not a disguise or anything. We are who we are. We don’t try to be anything else and maybe they see the honesty in that.”

Testament live, photo © Annie Atlasmann

Longtime fans have seen you so many times always expect the Chuck Billy signature stage move, headbanging, playing air guitar with your mic stand. When you walk out on stage, what’s going through your mind when you see those fans just losing their shit in the pit?

Chuck: “I say I’m like a superhero. I’m mild-mannered Chuck. I don’t talk much when I’m off the stage but as soon as that intro tape hits and I walk out, I’m a different guy. I turn into the frontman of Testament and it’s all about headbanging, sweating, giving it your all, and that’s the way I’ve done it from day one till today.

My mind still thinks I’m in my twenties. My body seems to disagree, but that’s kind of where I’m at. It’s funny, I’ll finish a tour and I’ll have a great show and I, my body makes it through everything and my voice is holding up but the minute I get home, my brain shuts down and all of a sudden, ‘Oh, wow. I can’t really talk now.’ Why does my brain and throat and body give up when I get home?”

I feel that. There’s a group of us that all go to different music festivals over the summer in the UK, this year we were sat there on the final day and instead of a row of beers all lined up, it was old man sweets and warm coats and I think we realized that we’d just got old.

Chuck: “…and when’s this show ending? I got to be in bed by 9.30.”

“As soon as that intro tape hits and I walk out, I’m a different guy. I turn into the frontman of Testament and it’s all about headbanging, sweating, giving it your all, and that’s the way I’ve done it from day one till today.”

Looking forward then. You mentioned a new album. What stage are you at with that?

Chuck: “We’re almost done with it and I would say that the new record, again, Eric has lifted the bar. We have a new drummer named Chris, who’s been with us for two years now. He’s 24. When he came into the band, he was a graduate of Berkeley School of Music. A very smart kid. Wonderful in the studio as a songwriter, everything. He’s one drummer who has spent the most time with Eric working on music and he’s really pushed Eric to create songs to be influenced by modern, younger bands that are making good names that the younger fanbase is taking a hold of.

When I heard the songs and I got the songs, at first I was like, ‘whoa, this is fast…’ It’s heavy… but then now living with them, to me, it feels fresh. After I wrote the vocals and everything for it, it’s pushing me to my limits. It pushed Eric to his limits so I think when fans hear our new record, especially younger fans who maybe that never heard Testament but they are grabbing on to some newer, upcoming bands that are playing very brutal heavy stuff, there’s elements of that in this new Testament record.

I’m excited. I would love to see somebody listen to the record who doesn’t know who we are or about us and see their reaction because It feels like everybody I have played a little sample of it says, ‘dude, that sounds fresh. That sounds modern.’ When they say that it is a compliment. I played it for one of my best friends in Europe this summer. I played him all the songs and he goes, ‘dude, it sounds so fresh. I was nervous that you were just going to give me something that you guys have done before, but this is not even close to anything you guys have ever done.’ I hope some new younger fans feel that same way once they hear it.”

What energy has Chris brought to the band?

Chuck: “Chris, he’s 26 so he listens to a lot of newer modern bands who have newer elements of the style of speed, heaviness and brutality which he’s played and influenced Eric. Usually, Eric will work out the drums with the drummer and almost tell them what to play. We have a short window to do that. Chris has spent months, at least six months back and forth with Eric coming out and staying with him for weeks at a time. Chris has spent the most time working on music than any other drummer has in the past and I think it really influenced Eric and pushed him to his limits because there’s some crazy stuff going on musically on this record.”

In terms of the older songs that was it, songs like ‘Over the Wall’ and ‘Into the Pit’, what kind of energy has Chris brought to those songs?

Chuck: “He’s playing them very aggressively, and fast as we do on the record, if not faster, he’s just such a solid drummer. When he came out, we actually picked him as our new drummer, but then Dave Lombardo called me and said he had heard we were looking for a drummer. Obviously, we took Dave Lombardo over a new kid. There was a point where Dave couldn’t do the beginning of a tour.

We called Chris and asked him to fill in. He came out to the studio and he knew every song, didn’t make one mistake and even knew more songs than we knew, he was so prepared and so good and so tight. He made us realise we’d better get our shit together. This kid is on fire. He was show-ready after one practice with us. So, we knew going into the new record, that he was going to bring it in and he’s such a nice, smart kid. It just refreshing to have some new blood in the band.”

“Chris has really pushed Eric to create songs to be influenced by modern, younger bands that are making good names that the younger fanbase is taking hold of.”

Just to wrap up, thanks for your time. In terms of the rest of the year and your hopes and plans for the future, what are your ambitions going into next year and beyond?

Chuck: “Well, we’re going to mix this record in December, January hopefully we’ll have the new record out before the summer. Who knows what’s going to happen or what the reaction will be on a new record? We just want to keep getting out there and playing that’s our goal. Eric is so excited about working with Chris in January, February, and March, which we have off, they’re going to get together and write the next record already.

Things are flowing so well with those two that we decided to keep it going. Why not keep writing? This record is so good. It’s so strong why not keep writing those songs? We’ve got time, why sit away from each other for three months when they’ll put in the work? So, we’re going to get ahead of the game and hopefully, after we release a record next year, have one ready to go right away… we’ll see what happens.”

And to new and old Testament fans then looking forward to the shows and the record. Have you got any message for them?

Chuck: “Just that it’s going to be true Testament… better than ever. Hopefully those fans who grew up with us, it hits them like it always has and they enjoy it. Looking forward to seeing the fans in the pit and getting to spend some time chatting with them outside the bus and seeing what the reaction is like.”